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View Full Version : Cap and Trade bill - FYI


juleec
06-26-2009, 12:58 PM
This post is an FYI post. This bill is very concerning to me. This is scheduled to be voted on in the Congress today. It might be too late!

A cap and trade system would allow the government to auction off permits to emit greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide. An estimated $650 billion would be raised by the auctions, leading to higher energy prices for consumers.

Environmentalists have pushed the measure as a means of reducing carbon emissions into the atmosphere, but it has also been met with hostility from many taxpayers because of the higher energy prices that would result.

Scientists agree that CO2 emissions around the world could lead to rising temperatures with serious long-term environmental consequences. But that is not a reason to enact a U.S. cap-and-trade system until there is a global agreement on CO2 reduction. The proposed legislation would have a trivially small effect on global warming while imposing substantial costs on all American households.

The leading legislative proposal, the Waxman-Markey bill that was recently passed out of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, would reduce allowable CO2 emissions to 83 percent of the 2005 level by 2020, then gradually decrease the amount further. Under the cap-and-trade system, the federal government would limit the total volume of CO2 that U.S. companies can emit each year and would issue permits that companies would be required to have for each ton of CO2 emitted. Once issued, these permits would be tradable and could be bought and sold, establishing a market price reflecting the targeted CO2 reduction, with a tougher CO2 standard and fewer available permits leading to higher prices.

Companies would buy permits from each other as long as it is cheaper to do that than to make the technological changes needed to eliminate an equivalent amount of CO2 emissions. Companies would also pass along the cost of the permits in their prices, pushing up the relative price of CO2-intensive goods and services such as gasoline, electricity and a range of industrial products. Consumers would respond by cutting back on consumption of CO2-intensive products in favor of other goods and services. This pass-through of the permit cost in higher consumer prices is the primary way the cap-and-trade system would reduce the production of CO2 in the United States.

The Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that the resulting increases in consumer prices needed to achieve a 15 percent CO2 reduction -- slightly less than the Waxman-Markey target -- would raise the cost of living of a typical household by $1,600 a year. Some expert studies estimate that the cost to households could be substantially higher. The future cost to the typical household would rise significantly as the government reduces the total allowable amount of CO2.

Americans should ask themselves whether this annual tax of $1,600-plus per family is justified by the very small resulting decline in global CO2. Since the U.S. share of global CO2 production is now less than 25 percent (and is projected to decline as China and other developing nations grow), a 15 percent fall in U.S. CO2 output would lower global CO2 output by less than 4 percent. Its impact on global warming would be virtually unnoticeable. The U.S. should wait until there is a global agreement on CO2 that includes China and India before committing to costly reductions in the United States.

The CBO estimates that the sale of the permits for a 15 percent CO2 reduction would raise revenue of about $80 billion a year over the next decade. It is remarkable, then, that the Waxman-Markey bill would give away some 85 percent of the permits over the next 20 years to various businesses instead of selling them at auction. The price of the permits and the burden to households would be the same whether the permits are sold or given away. But by giving them away the government would not collect the revenue that could, at least in principle, be used to offset some of the higher cost to households.

The Waxman-Markey bill would give away 30 percent of the permits to local electricity distribution companies with the expectation that their regulators would require those firms to pass the benefit on to their customers. If they do this by not raising prices, there would be less CO2 reduction through lower electricity consumption. The permit price would then have to be higher to achieve more CO2 reduction on all other products. Some electricity consumers would benefit, but the cost to all other American families would be higher.

The proposed cap-and-trade system would be a costly policy that would penalize Americans with little effect on global warming. The proposal to give away most of the permits only makes a bad idea worse. Taxpayers and legislators should keep these things in mind before enacting any cap-and-trade system.

No doubt our energy costs will skyrocket and we will be forced to pass those costs onto our customers. Bad for business and bad for our pocketbooks.

Your opinions?

For further information - just google "cap and trade bill"

Thanks,
Juli

juleec
06-26-2009, 02:44 PM
I don't want to start any kind of controversy here. I have done further research and the estimate of $1600 is disputed, but nevertheless, this is still real. I am not a political activist by any means, but I do try to keep up on the current issues. I don't feel I can sit idle if I want to have an opinion. I feel that knowing is half the battle.

Thanks -
Juli

Howard
06-26-2009, 02:56 PM
This is one of the stupidest things to come out of DC yet. I guess they really want to tax the economy to death. If passed, this will cause more manufacturing and jobs to be exported. Further, some companies will find it more attractive to sell their allocations and close their doors rather than producing products.

Did you realize that all politians create a huge amount of carbon dioxide by breathing and talking. If they were all killed it would reduce carbon dioxide output.

Oh and by the way, many scientist and non-leftists believe that this entire carbon dioxide man-made climate change this is a bunch of crapola!

DEMCO
06-26-2009, 03:16 PM
:( It passed the house now its on it's way to the Senate. Please - call your Senators NOW, and voice your opinion.

House Democrats narrowly won a key test vote Friday on sweeping legislation to combat global warming and usher in a new era of cleaner energy. Republicans said the bill included "the largest tax increase in American history."

The vote was 217-205 to advance the White House-backed legislation to the floor, and 30 Democrats defected, a reflection of the controversy the bill sparked.

The legislation would impose limits for the first time on carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas pollution from power plants, factories and refineries. It also would force a shift from coal and other fossil fuels to renewable and more efficient forms of energy. Supporters and opponents agreed the result would be higher energy costs, but disagreed widely on the impact on consumers.

President Obama has made the measure a top priority of his first year in office. The president, along with White House aides and House Democratic leaders, scrambled for the votes to assure passage. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has pledged to get the legislation passed before lawmakers leave on their July 4 vacation.

The Senate has yet to act on the measure, and a major struggle is expected.

In the House, the bill's fate depended on the decisions of a few dozen fence-sitting Democrats, mainly conservatives and moderates from contested districts who feared the political ramifications of siding with the White House and their leadership on the measure.

Democrats left little or nothing to chance. Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Calif., confirmed by the Senate on Thursday to an administration post, put off her resignation from Congress until after the final vote on the climate change bill.

"The bill contains provisions to protect consumers, keep costs low, help sensitive industries transition to a clean energy economy and promote domestic emission reduction efforts," the White House in a statement of support for the legislation.

Republicans saw it differently.

This "amounts to the largest tax increase in American history under the guise of climate change," said Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind.

While the bill would impose a "cap-and-trade" system that would force higher energy costs, Republicans for weeks have branded it an energy tax on every American.

But Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., said there was a "moral imperative to be good stewards of the earth."

The legislation, totaling about 1,200 pages, would require the U.S. to reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions by 17 percent from 2005 levels by 2020 and about 80 percent by the next century.

U.S. carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels are rising at about 1 percent a year and are predicted to continue increasing without mandatory caps.

Under the bill, the government would limit heat-trapping pollution from factories, refineries and power plants. It would distribute pollution allowances that could be bought and sold, depending on whether a facility exceeds the cap or makes greater pollution cuts than are required.

Obama on Thursday called it "a vote of historic proportions ... that will open the door to a clean energy economy" and green jobs. "It will create millions of new jobs," Pelosi insisted.

Both Obama and Pelosi preferred to focus on the economic issues rather than on what environmentalists view as the urgency of reducing carbon emissions blamed for global warming.

The Rust Belt coal-state Democrats who have been sitting on the fence worry about how to explain their vote for higher energy prices to people back home -- and how the vote might play out in elections next year.

Republicans have been quick to exploit those concerns.

"Democratic leaders are poised to march many moderate Democrats over a cliff ... by forcing them to vote for a national energy tax that is unpopular throughout the heartland," Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio said.

There was widespread agreement that under this cap-and-trade system, the cost of energy would almost certainly increase. But Democrats argued that much of the impact on taxpayers would be offset by other provisions in the bill. Low-income consumers would qualify for credits and rebates to cushion the impact on their energy bills.

Two reports issued this week -- one from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and the other from the Environmental Protection Agency -- seemed to support that argument.

The CBO analysis estimated that the bill would cost an average household $175 a year; the EPA put it at between $80 and $110 a year.

Republicans questioned the validity of the CBO study and noted that even that analysis showed actual energy production costs increasing $770 per household. Industry groups have cited other studies showing much higher cost to the economy and to individuals.

Howard
06-26-2009, 03:42 PM
What industry will be hurt very hard by this.... oh let me see.... what industry uses tons of natural gas and electricity......can anyone think of one..... I think it starts with an "L" and has washers and dryers.


oh and look its another wealth transfer from those of us that produce to those that don't. This county is turning into a banana republic real fast.

Adamski
06-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Howard,

I'm with you ... I'm getting so tired of the poor getting tax credits, rebates, welfare, disability, free debit cards, etc. when they've brought their problems on themselves by dropping out of school or failing to apply themselves while in school. Oh, and of course we have to have SPECIAL schools for those who cannot attend our public schools because they're too disruptive to the rest of the class. A loser is a loser until he dies.

It's standard practice for congress to throw a bone to the poor whenever a bill will have an adverse financial impact on voters. Taxes going up? No problem. Just rebate that cost to the poor. Meanwhile, we end up trying to provide a nice, efficient laundry service while competing in a subsidized home laundry market.

Michigan has a long-standing program that provides FREE washers to the poor. That means that a portion of my state taxes go to buy washers for people that I and other laundromats are here to serve.

Government is getting really good at stepping on the head of private enterprise in the name of "filling a need". Sure, if government gives things away, there will always be people standing in long lines to receive what they're giving. That does not mean that there is a need for the thing. It just means that people will go for the freebe before they'll go for paying for it. No big surprise there.

I say we must rise up, people. We must fill the streets of Washington DC with thousands of placard-toting entrepreneurs. We must let congress know that we are tired of carrying the weight of the country on our backs. We must let them know that we're not going to take it any longer.

Anyway, sorry about that last paragraph ... one glass of wine really gets me going.

Howard
06-26-2009, 04:44 PM
Larry:

Unfortunately we are too late. I heard on the radio just yesterday that over 50% of people no pay no Federal Income Tax what-so-ever. Thus, the majority is happy to raise taxes, as they don't pay them. We are in deep doo.

capitolcity
06-27-2009, 08:31 AM
Income tax isnt the problem IMHO. If you own Real Estate as a major piece of your portfolio you should be able to activly manage your income tax liability. Sadly Property Taxes are spiraling out of control and placing an unnatural burden on the multi property/ investment business man. Especially here in NH.

Howard
06-27-2009, 08:35 AM
Income tax isnt the problem IMHO. If you own Real Estate as a major piece of your portfolio you should be able to activly manage your income tax liability. Sadly Property Taxes are spiraling out of control and placing an unnatural burden on the multi property/ investment business man. Especially here in NH.


What you say about real estate may very well be true, but the fact that the majority no longer pay income tax IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. Once the majority no longer see this impacting them they will pressure their representatives to just keep jacking up the income tax, and since they are the majority--- well you get it. EVERYONE no matter how little they make should pay some income tax.

hiddenviewmat
06-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Here's a link to an article about how Obama is "prodding" the Senate to OK the bill: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31565446/ns/us_news-environment

Rocki
06-27-2009, 01:41 PM
I concur. We are in deep doo!

wallywash
06-27-2009, 07:52 PM
So, the benefit of all this is take from the Wealthy Laundromat Owner (via higher cost on utilities, increased taxes etc) and give to the 50% who don't pay taxes (who obviously are the biggest users of laundromats).

Well, how many of you are going to take that increased operating cost, and accept lower profit/standard of living (or worse operate at a loss)? You'll raise your prices so you can continue to exhist (a good idea anyways).

What the MORONS in DC don't understand, IT ALL GETS PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER. Doesn't matter if it's laundromats or healthcare.

Howard
06-27-2009, 09:12 PM
Yup, its just like their idea to tax the "EVIL" corporations more. Corporations only act as tax collectors - it all gets passed to the people. All this stupid law will do is lower everyone's standard of living in this country. The whole world should be laughing at us.

DEMCO
06-27-2009, 09:26 PM
Yup, its just like their idea to tax the "EVIL" corporations more. Corporations only act as tax collectors - it all gets passed to the people. All this stupid law will do is lower everyone's standard of living in this country. The whole world should be laughing at us.


They are:mad: