A.O. Smith Cyclone XHE Water Heater

[StoneColdKiller]

http://www.hotwater.com/PDFSpecSheets/A1045.pdf

Just curious if anyone has opinions on these units. I like 2 of BTH199 manifolded together to provide for around 600 gph maximum usage. I have recently priced the Super E, which I am a fan of, but they come in at about $9,000 for two 199,000 btu units stacked providing about 600 gph. This is a bit pricely and I am confident that the Cyclone will be substantially cheaper. I have not located a dealer yet for pricing.

[Jefflange]

www.partsking.com (http://www.partsking.com) Cyclone $3215

[Dan_Grise]

Have you considered the EVO99 by Hamilton Engineering? It is the most efficient heater on the market at 99.8% and is the only heater that features a heat exchanger made of 316L stainless steel...

[Jefflange]

How much does the evo go for? For the price of the Cyclone if it lasts 10 years it may be worth it.

[Larry_Sitz]

I have installed 4 Super Cyclones in 3 of my stores in the last 3 years. They are easy to install and very reliable.

[Jefflange]

I never had a tank type heater in mat, how long do they last?

[StoneColdKiller]

Clearly the 94-95% efficiency stuff is priced right so long as it lasts. I can see no value in paying twice as much for 99% efficiency. So far I'm with the tank 199's.

[Howard]

99% is pure BS in my mind! There is no way you are capturing 99% (actually I think Hamilton claims 99.8%!) of the input BTU's. The burner might be efficient but I think it is a very misleading claim because the overall thermal eff is much lower than that. Check out the laws of physics and you too will be very skeptical of these claims.

[Duane]

Hamilton's claim is "Up to 99.8%".

http://www.hamiltonengineering.com/evolution99/efficiency.html

[Dan_Grise]

If Hamilton's EVO 99 was not 99.8% they would get in trouble for false advertising. There are two types of efficiencies to consider when looking at heaters. There is thermal efficiency and seasonal efficiency. Thermal efficiency is mostly used when advertising because this efficiency rating is always higher. Thermal efficiency is a "snapshot" efficiency rating when all the variables are in favor of the heater. Example: 1. Incoming water is colder (therefore the water absorbs heat more efficiently and the heater is therefore more efficient) 2. Standby heat loss is not truly considered in the thermal efficiency "snapshot". Seasonal efficiency is what is truly important. Seasonal efficiency is the actual efficiency taking into account real-world variables such as stand-by heat loss. As a rule of thumb you can see that the efficiency rating of heaters goes down when the water temperature goes up. Hamilton claims 99.8% efficiency when the incoming water is 54 degrees F and only a 96% efficiency when the water entering is 120 degrees F. Most water heaters that have thermal efficiency ratings in the 90s have seasonal efficiency ratings around the mid 80s (try calling the manufacturers and asking them). The EVO 99 does carry a higher price tag… so the question… Is 10% more “real-world” efficiency worth paying more for? The answer to this question is largely dependent on your gas bill. In some cases the higher efficiency would pay for itself in no time. In other cases it would not. There is another issue that should also be considered. For the most part all heaters used in a coin laundry type environment that are over 85% efficient and not instantaneous are condensing heaters. The condensing creates an acidic environment for your heat exchanger. Hamilton Engineering is the only company I know of to offer a 316L stainless steel heat exchanger (and it is only available in the EVO 99 and EVO II). 316L Stainless steel can hold up to corrosive environments much better than copper or a lesser grade of stainless steel. All this being said the EVO 99 is the most efficient heater on the market and the only heater to offer a 316L stainless heat exchanger… Is the higher efficiency and stainless steel worth the extra cash? That depends on your gas bill expense and the amount of time that you want to keep your heater…

[Duane]

Jeff,

If you never had a tank type water heater, what type of unit do you use and what are the specs?

Brand name?
GPM
Warranty
Size of water line
Your stores washing capacity
Average incoming water temp
Outgoing temp to washers
How much service or maintenance is required?

I would love a wall mount unit, but unless I bank about 5 in a row it just won't keep me in hot water.

Duane.

[Jefflange]

http://www.nationalcombustion.com/natco.htm

These are the water heaters I have

[brucehwalker]

I have Palomas and I hate them. I had to do major work to get a circulating pump to keep the water in the lines hot and sometimes they can't keep up with the demand. I've had many complaints and I'd never recommend them to anyone.

The guys at Hamilton are very knowledgable. Call them and let them show you the numbers.

[Larry_Sitz]

I average about 10 years on the tank type water heaters. It is nice not to worry about circulating pumps and huge storage tanks.

[StoneColdKiller]

Thanks for the replies. I like the tanks and think I'll give them a try. Price is right at throw away in 5-10 years for the efficiency factor alone. I can't believe any of these heaters will maintain their ratings after 10 years after the abuse they will take in my store. My philosophy for hot water is don't fix it till it breaks and my water is really hard. I've never drained or acid washed a tank of heater and don't plan to. Rather buy another.