New (game) in store

[surfflite]

I was approached last week to put one of these machines in my mat. http://www.vendingamericadirect.com

Here is what he offered:

a) 50/50 split on the monthly profits
b) or he will lease a 2 1/2' x 2 1/2' (footprint) of floor space in my mat for $250/month.

They claim the machines make $1000-$2500/month, but IMO, my mat wouldn't produce that much action. So I asked him if I could do the $250/month floorspace lease 1st and if the machine really does make more, if I could change to the 50/50 option. He said yes.

They set-up the entire deal, maintain, collect etc.... Absolutely no obligation on my behalf other than the floor space. I get a check every 30 days. I can have him remove it anytime I want if it isn't working out. But he is willing to leave it in my store for 90 days minimum ($750 free money minimum)

He has another machine about 1.5 miles away in a Chevron that makes on average $2400/month and told me where it was so I went there and talked to the owner and he loves it.

I know it sounds too good to be true but I grilled the guy pretty hard and there doesn't seem to be any catch. I even asked him "what if it doesn't even make $500/month, how can U afford to pay me $250 to have it there. He said he has 600 machine from Florida to Cali and some make so much it offsets the ones that don't and that is how he can afford to just rent space for $250/month.

I went ahead with the deal and it will be professionally installed (bolted to floor & wall) next week. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Duane]

You need to be there for the collections.

When I was building my store I had at least a half dozen route operators come in and offer me an air hockey table, pool table and a mega touch video game. They said that they would come in and clean, maintain and collect the machines and would send me a check each month for 50% of the collection. I told them that sounded nice, but I would be on a card system and my attendants could keep everything clean and I would call only if they needed serviced and I would send them a check each month for 50% of the collection.

Not one route operator would do it..... Why??? Because it isn't 50/50.

I talked one of the bar owners in town to dump his route operator and put in his own mega touch. He found the exact same model on Ebay and put it on his bar where the previous one was located. After the 1st month he made over $400 from the game. Before his cut was only averaging $50 a month.........

Also, check to see if a pusher is legal in your area.

Duane.

[wdbgelaundromat]

We made almost $300 in one week with the quarter pusher game. Then we almost got arrested, in VA they are considered a game of chance (like a slot machine).

Be sure to check with state and local govt.

[surfflite]

He said all collections will be witnessed by myself or my manager. They will unlock the game, empty the profits and weigh the quarters in front of us. The machine is also licensed with the State Comptroller's Office.

[Duane]

Why not just buy your own?

[Saizen]

If it wasn't illegal dont you think those machine would be everywhere people wouldn't have to go to Vegas, riverboat or Indian reservation to play slot machines or a quarter pusher. It's illegal gambling what happens when a kid goes in there and looses all his money and the parents complain to authorities. Your going to have a big problem on your hands. First off it's illegal and second you have to be over 18 to 21 to play a slot machine or a quarter pusher Vegas 21 Indian reservation 18. Are you going to check Id's. That state controllers sticker dont mean Sh#@ just a fraud. Attention owners beware of this it's illegal and if your competitors have one call the authorities to report it so they dont have the extra income advantage over you. To those who who have them in the store call the operator tell them the State gambling commission wants to meet with them and when they disconnect there phone line take the machine out and you can have a nice novelty for friends at your house. Cause you'll probably never here from them again.

Saizen

[Saizen]

You can report this on a government web site for your state here is one I came acrros for California.

http://ag.ca.gov/gambling/









Saizen

[Duane]

Some states consider this a game of skill and is legal.

[Saizen]

If that was the case I would go to ebay buy my own and put them in my self your winning money not a prize.

[surfflite]

Calm down. :) Duane is correct and the state I live considers it a game of skill and it is legal. There is one in a Chevron Station 2 miles from my place.
It is, however, illegal in several other states.

[epic02]

Kerry, How can you stop kids from playing it specially if your an unattended mat. I know one of my competitors had one in his mat he said it was draining all his quarters when he heard it was illegal I think he got rid of it. Also I heard someone got a $5,000 fine for putting them in places. Kerry,What state are you in Like sizen says, I would check to see if there 100% legal just to be safe. Also you might need special permits for that.

[surfflite]

I'm in AZ. I found a website that states it is legal in AZ but I think I am going to do a little more due dilligence before I commit to installing it. When inquiring there are some states that blatently address coin-pushers and their legality. I had to dig pretty deep to find anything pertaining to Arizona though. The only thing I could find in AZ are that those crane games have restrictions (tokens rather than coin payouts). I am full time attended BTW.

Even Keep in mind that I will not own this machine. I am leasing him floor space. thanks for the input, I'll let you know what I find out.

[Adamski]

Kerry,

A whle back, we were considering offering a free glass of wine to adult customers. Many of the classier (meaning higher priced) hair salons were already doing this. I decided to talk to the police to find out if I could offer free wine without having a liquor license. After all, I wasn't going to sell the wine. The police detective couldn't answer my question so he called the Michigan Liquor Control Commission. Their answer was NO - not without a liquor license.

We let some of the salons know what the liquor commission said and they have since stopped pouring the wine. The lesson: even when others are doing it, that's not a guarantee that it's legal.

[epic02]

I've seen those quarter pushers in arcades and Chickie Cheeses that take tokens. If you win they only give out tickets for prize redemption you cant win more tokens. Kerry also how you going to stop minors from playing it. It's like putting a cigarette vending machine in you laundromat minors are going to buy from there. Cigarette vending machines are legal but not in all locations, only where adults are allowed.

[surfflite]

Here is what I found on the states website. I also emailed the Arizona Attorney Generals office to get their input.

Arizona Revised Statutes

ARS 13-3301 Definitions

In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Amusement gambling " means gambling involving a device, game or contest which is played for entertainment if all of the following apply:

(a) The player or players actively participate in the game or contest or with the device.

(b) The outcome is not in the control to any material degree of any person other than the player or players.

(c) The prizes are not offered as a lure to separate the player or players from their money.

(d) Any of the following:

(i) No benefit is given to the player or players other than an immediate and unrecorded right to replay which is not exchangeable for value.

(ii) The gambling is an athletic event and no person other than the player or players derives a profit or chance of a profit from the money paid to gamble by the player or players.

(iii) The gambling is an intellectual contest or event, the money paid to gamble is part of an established purchase price for a product, no increment has been added to the price in connection with the gambling event and no drawing or lottery is held to determine the winner or winners.

(iv) Skill and not chance is clearly the predominant factor in the game and the odds of winning the game based upon chance cannot be altered, provided the game complies with any licensing or regulatory requirements by the jurisdiction in which it is operated, no benefit for a single win is given to the player or players other than a merchandise prize which has a wholesale fair market value of less than four (4) dollars or coupons which are redeemable only at the place of play and only for a merchandise prize which has a fair market value of less than four (4) dollars and, regardless of the number of wins, no aggregate of coupons may be redeemed for a merchandise prize with a wholesale fair market value of greater than thirty-five (35) dollars.

"Crane game " means an amusement machine which is operated by player controlled buttons, control sticks or other means, or a combination of the buttons or controls, which is activated by coin insertion into the machine and where the player attempts to successfully retrieve prizes with a mechanical or electromechanical claw or device by positioning the claw or device over a prize.


ARS 13-3302. Exclusions

A. The following conduct is not unlawful under this chapter:

1. Amusement gambling.

2. Social gambling.

3. Regulated gambling if the gambling is conducted in accordance with the statutes, rules or orders governing the gambling.

4. Gambling that is conducted at state, county or district fairs and that complies with section 13-3301, paragraph 1, subdivision (d).

[surfflite]

Ok, here is what I found out. I received a response today from the Arizona Attorney Generals Office regarding the coin pusher game. They basically told me this: The Attorney General's Office is prohibited by law to provide any legal interpretation or advice to private parties or individuals. However, you can direct questions regarding current state law to the Arizona Law Library, who can assist you in locating related statute.

So, I contacted the Arizona Law Library and they looked up the appropriate statute which happens to be the same one I posted above. They went over the statute line by line with me and in their "opinion" the coin pusher game qualifies as an Amusement Game and is indeed not unlawful. Although they qualified their statement by saying they cannot give legal advice either. So, I am putting the game in the store. I have printed out a copy of the statute and it will be prominently displayed on the game.

[Adamski]

I have printed out a copy of the statute and it will be prominently displayed on the game.

Kerry,

That way folks can learn about the statute as they lose their coins.

[soapopera]

In Kentucky, it is my understanding that since the games I have include a button to stop the pusher, that provides a means for the player to control the game, thus making it a game of skill rather than just a game of chance.

In one store I had one of these games broken into twice, so it promptly vanished.
The customers complained about not being able to play.
The actions of one ruining the pleasure of many . . . .

[surfflite]

This game also has a skill button where you can stop the slider. I played it last night and you can very accurately place the coins. Definitely more skill involved than chance. The machine is bolted to the floor and wall and is under video surveillance, so hopefully it will remain intact.

[epic02]

Kerry, So I guess It didin't last long.

[CanCanCase]

...how you going to stop minors from playing it. It's like putting a cigarette vending machine in you laundromat minors are going to buy from there. Cigarette vending machines are legal but not in all locations, only where adults are allowed.

Bottom line to take from this whole thread is that different states see things differently and have implemented different laws (or not) to deal with it. Ever been to a restaurant that serves alcohol in Alaska? There used to be cig machines everywhere... nothing but the staff to keep kids from buying. That has changed somewhat in the last few years, but I still marvel at "sin machines" and "gambling devices" in places where minors have plenty of access. Granted, it's been a long time, but the last time I was in Vegas, there were slot machines in the airport, hotel lobbies, grocery stores, Denny's, etc... no barricades to keep the little ones out.

-Case

[SoooperDave]

Surfflite......so, how does the story end? Did you do it? I'm curious.

[surfflite]

SuperDave,

See thread titled "coin pusher" for the outcome. I just posted my experience there last week.