2 sides of the coin!

[actionmedia]

Hi!

May be some of you know that I am from Europe, Romania, Bucharest, a city with over 2,000,000 residents.
In the past four month I spend time reading your posts and I saw one side of the coin:
- it is dificult to start from the grownd because there are too many laundromats in USA and you can only succeed by "steeling" clients from others.
The second side of the coin I saw it here in my country:
- it is dificult to start from the grownd because there are only few laundromats in Romania (in fact I found only one) and you can't see how it works for the others.
It just cross my mind: "What if some of you want to extend their business and go international? You know the business, I know the market, we could do business together".
So, if any of you are interesting to investigate this opportunity and deal with the other side of the coin, write me at: actionmedia@xnet.ro /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Teodor

[actionmedia]

I see no one is interested in my proposal. may be you have better things to do, may be you did not understand me.

[alexx5000]

I'm sure most understood you, just most here are concerned with their own business and paying the rent thats due tomorrow, than they are in starting a laundromat in Europe.

[actionmedia]

Thank you alexx.
Did you receive my email? I'm still waiting for your replay.

[actionmedia]

I see my post got over 100 views. That's good. May be after 500 I will see feed back.
Thank's for your interest.
You know, this ideea about 2 sides of the coin I got by reading "Reach Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. It's a good book, like the other 3 books of the same writer.
In the last book, "Reach Child, Smart Child" he sais there are many type of genies and a team can be more efective than an individual.
Think about it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
There are 22 000 000 peuples waiting to be served. I intend to get a huge share of it.

[alexx5000]

I have not received any e-mail's from you.

[neal]

Whats the reason there is only one around where you live? Dont they wear clean clothes there? Or no money for mats ?

[petefritz]

action. I applaud your want to be;; however, there are still many oppurtunity here in the USA for mats, and quite frankly, i would not buy one 30 miles away from me, let alone 1/2 way around the world. Who is going to collect that cash? bookeeping? There is little profit in paying someone to do all the work, so why bother. You should seek an investor in your own town if you have no funds to enter this biz. If you need an advisor, and willing to pay, that is different. I am able to help, for a fee.

[actionmedia]

Thanks for your interest.
For sure, I don't know why is only one mat. I can tell you there are many dry cleaning companies and WDF sevices and are very succesfull, so there are clothes to be cleaned and peuples have money to do it.
I guess here never started self service business when it should start. In 50 years of communism there was only one huge cleaning company called "Nufarul" specialized in dry cleaning and WDF.
After december 1989 wen the communism falled down and capitalism instaled, there was a boom in cleaning industry but only in one diraction (DC and WDF).
There is anoher explanation: after the revolution the currency here was very unstable, we had up to 90% inflation in one year. In dec '89 the US Dollar worth 24 lei, now it is 32700 lei. In this conditions no one would invest in any coin business.
Now the situation is changed, inflation drop to 12% in 2003 and we expect 9% in 2004. In january 2005 our currency will become stronger as National Bank will cut 0000 from it's tale
and the US dollar exchange rate will be 3.27 lei or so.
If I will be succesfull in this business and the news will be spread fast enoth, many others will come and open such shop.
All that happened in USA 50 - 70 year ago, it happens here now and the folowing years. It is like new begening. The old customs die, new customs are born.
I am very happy I finaly captured your interest on this. May be one of you will stand up and look forward, over de coin boxes and will see the American Way going trogh Romania.
Any of you read Kiyosaki's books?

Teodor

[actionmedia]

Personal thank's to Berverly Balnk - www.beverlyslaundromat.com (http://www.beverlyslaundromat.com) - for the first email I received after this post.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Answare to petefritz: Finding the money is not a problem. Learnig is not a problem.
What I am looking for is a strong partnership to build a big Business here. Because here are too few laundromats, it can be franchised.
If the business stop to be only a small darty underware business and become a franchise then your concern will not be who will emty the coin boxes but who else will come into the business.
Try to look into it from a difrent point of view.

[actionmedia]

Please excuse my poor English

[SoSoapy]

Yours seems to be an enticing idea. I've only just joined the newgroup or I would have answered earlier.

I think the big drawback for most here is the lack of familiarity with laws, customs, etc. With a bit of educational material, I would certainly be willing to give the idea some serious consideration.

T

[petefritz]

Action, I am interested in your market, I am advisor to an investor in a bigger market in a foriegn country also. I would need to find out more info, so you email me if interested. You would have to put up all the capital to build out the mats, I am only for advice, and my fee is quite low.
I can arrange import, mechanicals, etc, and can be on site for the first few mats for technical assiantance.

[actionmedia]

Petefritz.
I belive you are a succesfull businessman. Your proposal may seem atractive on the screen of the computer but I see the facts quite diferent.
I am looking for peuples who are willing to share the investment, the risk and the profit, because in this way I could be sure they will put their brain to work and will be always active. If you do not invest money you will not do everyting you can to get payed back because you know that no matter how the business work you will get your money.
Do you see my point? Fear to loose money is more powerfull than willing to make them. I am counting on those who strugle not to loose the money more than on those who want to make some money.
Of course I will take in consideration your proposal and I will think about it. I don't know your email. You can find mine in this post please write me.
For all the others who want more info or to talk more about this topic write me at actionmedia@xnet.ro

SoSoapy I understand from your post you are new in the business. How do you define new, do you already run a mat?
You can wrinte me on the email above.

I don't hurry. Like Duane said, "you have to crawl in this business". I intend to do so.

Teodor

[Kleen]

Action, have you tried to get some investor interest in your own country ? Probably you can collect small investors capitals all together to start or even start small. Do you think that a small independent investor will take the risk to start a project so far from home under an unknown market , different culture , rules and regulations , having good chances still in own country ? I don't think so.

Perhaps a franchise or other big guys, however the big guys are gonna to make business for them to make money , not you. I'm new in this Laundromat theme , but I've been running my own business ( not laundry related) for 15 years now have learned something.

Just my 2 cents , I wish you the best in your search.

Regards.

[actionmedia]

I have a plan to start on my own. I can get a leasing for the equipment and a small loan for the expences. You see with or without your help I can start the business. My concern is how fast it will grow. I am good at marketing but I know too litle about this business and especialy about equipment.
I think that would be best to find an associate who know much about the laundry equipment. Could be from USA wich I prefer or from Europe.
Did you know that here the utilities are very cheap? 13% of gross. With 1000 USD you can pay the salary for 6 month of one employe or you can pay 6 employes for a month.
Do you want to know more?

[alexx5000]

Action,

That's great that you can get the lease and a loan for the expenses, but how much CASH are you able to put in the deal? Without some cash investment on the part of the owner the project has limited chances for success. With all due respect, if I was an investor and had the cash, why would I need you if you brought nothing to the table? There is also much more involved with building and running a laundromat than just equipment and construction.

[actionmedia]

In Romania no bank or leasing company will loan you money if you don't have your cash and it should be minimum 20% to 30%. I belive it is about the same thing in America. You put a pointless question. Ofcourse I have the cash. That is no problem.
Like someone here said I can start small and it is most indicated on this market were peuples never used this type of service.
Because the customers must be "educated" first, it requiers lot of marketing skills. This is my strong point.
My concern is that after I will invest in promoting this type of service others will see the opportunity and my be they will be quiker in developing this business.
I just want to be a step in front of them, offering them "the key"and showing them "the door". This is the reason I am looking for alliance with someone good in this business. I see the alliance 50% - 50% fair.

Teodor

[alexx5000]

Teodor,

My question wasn't pointless and I was not trying to be sarcastic. In none of your previous posts did you mention that you had money of your own to invest and I inferred from these posts that you were looking for another to contribute the cash.

If you do a laundromat and others see the opportunity, they may decide to compete with you. That is all part of the free market. I'm sure there are laundromats in western Europe, have you ever considered visiting another country near you to see what they do? You might have better luck finding a European investor.

By the way, what did people in Romania/Bucharest do to wash their clothes during communism?

[petefritz]

this does not make any sense at all. If you have money to build a mat then do it. Giving someone 50% of the cash flow while you do all the work, spendingf all day educating customers, cleaning every nite, going to the emegency calls, messing with stooped up toilets, etc, why would you want to do all the work and split 1/2 of the money?. Of course owners take no wages, they live off thier profits.

[actionmedia]

Alexx,

Yes there are laundromats in Europe, I am looking for them. I think my search for partnership sould not be stoppet by any baundries. I ma looking in Europe because is closer and I am looking in USA because is more advanced in this field.
I'm just trying diffrent approch to the point. I will start this business one way or another, with or without partnership. May be the partner will come later, may be the partner will be equipment distributor and not a laundromat owner.
About the your final question, I can identify 3 ways of washing clothes before :
1. Cleaning Company - except self service - "Nufarul" was ofering all kind of washing services (WDF, Dry Cleaning, Drop Off, Pick up and Delivery). That was the only company with licence for this type of services. It is active today and have many shops allover the country.
2. Luckyest or influent peuples maneged to buy their own washing machine (topload). I must say there was a waiting list for those who wanted to buy a machine.
3. Many other used the classical way, like our grand-grand parents did.

Pete,
You will never understand if you do not change your perspective. The jobs you spoke about I qualify them as small jobs. Those jobs can be done by an employee. If I will do those jobs, I expect to be payed for it with a salary.
For the money I invest in I will get a diferent type of payment, call it rent call it interest or divident or whatever you want.
There are other jobs the owners have to do: researching, planning, organising. I supose me and my future associate will to a lot of brainwork. This can be done no matter the distance or the location.

[petefritz]

you may be in for a big supprise. This is a reason nobody will invest in a mat 1/2 way around the world. There is not enough profits, you are pretty much a well paid janitor, repair man, accounant, jack of all trades as a mat owner working your mat. Many big name people tried to do what you propose here in the USA and they lost millions. Laundries for the most part are well run by an individule and thier family members.

[actionmedia]

Pete,

I respect your oppinion and in the same time I belive it is only a matter o perspecive.
I must recognize you have much more experince in this field then me and if what you said here will proove to be true and that kind of business is doomed to remain only a small family business than may be is not the business I am looking for. I don't want to be just my own employee, not for 100 K, not for 200 K, not for any amount, if I invest some money I expect those money to "work for me".
I intend to find a way to make the money o work for me in lundromat business. Wen I opened this discution I was hopping most of you think the same way. I guess I was wrong.
Pete you said the profits are too small. Let's do some matematics:
- How many households a single mat can serve?. Let's say 1000. What will be the profit for 1 year for that mat. Let's say it is a very small one - 25,000 USD. You are right, it is small!
- What if you own 2 mats of the same shape? How many households? - 2000. What would be the profit? 50,000 USD. Do you have any aditional costs or penalties for operating 2 mats? Yes - 10% of your profit. What is the net profit? - 45,000 USD! It is much better then 25,000 for one mat.
What if you own 10 launtromats of the same kind? Than you serve 10,000 households and your theoretical profit would be 250,000 USD. Ofcourse for such a big business you should have much more aditional costs or penalties (managers, employes etc.) let's say it is 30% of your theoretical profit. Then your net profit 175,000 USD but guess what: you put in about the same amount of work as you would have only one mat.
- I let you figure what would be your profit for 100 laundromats.

[Kleen]

Action ,
Hat in hand to face your enthusiasm , however due all respect , I don't get your point.

You can multiply the revenue by 10 , 20 or 50 or whatever factor you want ofcourse, but the investment capital will be exponential as well, is not only the penalties you should look at .

A big start up is not a guarantee for success. Even Bill Gates started from a garage.

My 2 cents.

[actionmedia]

I never said you should start building 100 mats at once.
I was just tryed to show the diference betwin two ways of
thinking.
One way is to think as an employee or self employee or small business owner.
The other way is to think as an investor.
O.K. you make 25,000 profit from one mat. The diference is what you do with them. Do you level up your living or you level up your business?
Can you build a new laundromat with that 25,000 cash? I think yes. May be 2 of them.
My point is that is ceapper to build a new mat from ground than to buy an existing one but the problem is that is impossible to build 100 mats who will serve a total of 100.000 hoseholds and all to be in your residence area. There is possible to build 100 mats with a certain distance betwin them. In Romania is room for much more than 100 laundromats.
I am convinced that if you use a good system than you can build a new now matter the distance to your home. Today we can use the internet and other modern communication technics, there are ways of monitoring your business anywere in the world. Let the managers or the employes to do the small work, your concern should be were to open next laundromat.
May be others already tryed that and failed but anyone wonder why? What were the conditions? Did they had a system? Did the system failed?

[alexx5000]

It will cost you a heck of a lot more to build a new laundry, then to buy an existing one. Even in Eastern Europe this would be true. Even there it would be crazy to think you could do it for $25,000 only.

[petefritz]

I am not going to say you can't do it, alone. I know a guy who has about 30 mats or so, all unattended. He has family to help, probably a cleaning crew or two, a full time service guy, runs a pretty good show. His operation is not the "norm". He is sharp and knows what he is looking for. I have 3 mats, and am building a 4th right now. I can say 25k will not get you much here in USA, my store will cost over 135k just in equipment alone, and maybe another 50 k for buildout and install, maybe more, So I would need about 100k cash to to the store and be safe. In eastren Europe you probably need at least 50k US to get started small. What do you do now that you make more than 200k a year? Maybe a mat is not your type of investment. You quote" I don't want to be just my own employee, not for 100 K, not for 200 K, not for any amount""

[actionmedia]

Hi!
Before everything else, I would like to thank to all that payed attention to this post. As you can see it reached almost 600 views and now has 27 responses. This is very good and that make me belive that is an interesting topic. I am looking forward for 1000 views.
Pete we finaly agreed on something, it is cheaper to build it here in Eastern Europe.
If the investment is 135,000 only for the equipment I would expect that the profit would be at lest 10,000 USD per month.
That mean if I put in 50,000 (the rest is leasing or loan) I expect to recover them in maximum 6 month. This way after 6 month I can start another investment of about the same value.
If I have 100,000 cash and to build one mat it cost 100,000... I would build 4 of them. Do you see my point?
In Romania I was planning to start with 30 - 35 K, if I find an associate we could start with 60-70 K.
I am not making 200 K per year, I just was imagine me cleaning the toilet, reparing machines, cleaning the floor and so on, for 100 k or 200 k from my own business and wonder why should not hire someone for 5,000 USD to do all that.
Alexx. 25,000 was the profit of a certain laundromat wich was sopose to serve 1000 househods. I was trying to keep the proportions. I was not sayng that investment for one mat is only 25,000. This is your cahs for the rest you get loan or someting. And don't tell me you invest like 200 K or 300 K and you expect to get only 25 k per year!! That would be very bad business. I would never get into it.

[petefritz]

wow, you are really are in for a big supprise. You think a mat will pay back in 6 months?? Many new ones do not pay back in 6 years!

Where did you get your info on the mat biz? It is a bit rosey, to say the least.

I would challange you to put 1 store up for 35k and go from there. You should learn the biz. I have a simple business plan, and that is to be able to do everything, that includes cleaning the toilet. You need to start somewhere, and you can learn alot at the bottom.
If you are not willing to clean the floor, repair machines or clean the toilet for 100k a year this biz is not for you.
I can't say anymore, it is not making sense to me now.

[actionmedia]

Every body say that tha things go this way and that way, that fronts are better than tops, that franchise is not suitable, that there is a small profit, that you get payed back in 6 years and so on. But no one tell why. What is the reason for this situation?
Everybody says that a mat should have 3 to 8 TPD. Why not 12 TPD why not 16?
If you build a mat and you expect to use only 20% of it's capacity, why don't you build it smaller and use 50%, if you see it requiers more capacity than you add more equipment later. It is about research, planning and organising, only after that, to save a buck, you can do the cleaning and repairs youself.
If the utilities are 25% of gross and the profit is still small I can identify 2 resons for that:
1. You don't have enough customers comparing to the size of the mat.
2. Your fixed costs (rent, employes salary and so on) are too big.
There are ways to find out how many customers you will have. I would never do a business that will not return the cahs in a resonalbe time.
If you say that the mat will pay back in 6 years why bother to do it. Would be better to do real estate investments it is a lot easyer.
If you did not read Kiyosaki's books, do it! It will help you look into it from a diferent perspective.

Teodor

[Duane]

Okay, time for me to chime in.

Teodor,

I applaud your ambition and insight on developing a new business, especially one that could possibly start a cultural change in a country. What you lack in experience, you make up for in entrepreneurship thinking.

Here are some answers to your questions.

Why doesn't franchise laundries work? Too many layers of management needed to support a franchise business. You will need an office staff to do your accounting, payroll, legal, etc.,. All these expenses will take your profit.

Each store should be its own company for liability reasons. If you have a legal matter that happened in store A, you don't want to lose stores B and C in the process. Another layer of management needed to keep separate books, etc.

Small stores verses a large store. It is more economical to build one larger store than a couple of smaller stores just due to utility upgrades alone. Upgrading utilities can costs several thousand, if not tens of thousands of dollars. Doing two stores would just double the costs. Average cost for a store build-out is $100 to $150 per square foot depending on location and equipment mix.

In the United States it will cost between $250,000 and $400,000 to build a medium size store. You should have at least $100,000 to 50% of your own money to put down. You mentioned it would only take $25,000 to start a mat, sometimes it takes that just to upgrade the utilities.

Equipment costs (USD). Figure $100 per pound of wash. If you have 10 35lb machines (350lbs of wash) it would cost about $35,000 and that doesn't include taxes, installation, bases or shipping. Figure about 12 stack dryers to accommodate your wash loads and you are at another $48,000 not including taxes, installation or shipping.

What else is there?

Utility upgrades (can the local utilites support a mat?)
Bulkheads
Bases
Vending machines (soap, snack, soda)
folding tables
laundry carts
hot water heater ($8-$10,000)
Change machines
Flooring
Signage
seating
security
.........
......
..
.

What about location. More times than not it is necessary to pay the premium lease to have a good visible location with good parking. Location, location, location.

Customer base. Since you are creating a new demand (is it really a new demand if you are creating it?) it will take you several months, possibly years to build up a customer base to support your first store. In the mean time you will need to financially support the store, which could cost $100,000 to do for a couple of years.

TPD. This comes down to basic math. Assuming you can build up a customer base to stand in line and run your machines over and over again it is difficult to do 18TPD. If you are open from 8:00 am to 10:00 pm you will be open for 16 hours. In that time you can do about 28 TPD assuming a 30 minute wash cycle and each customer is waiting to pull their clothes out and the next one is ready to put theirs in. The scenario is impossible. People will not stand in line to do their wash. The prime times for laundry are the evenings and weekends (Sunday) since most people need to work for a living. If you could do 18TPD then expect high maintenance on parts and labor since you will be needing to repair your machines 4 times more often than the average mat. You will need to replace your machines every 4-5 years to keep up. I have a proforma spread sheet if you are interested in calculating profit on TPD.

If you are that busy someone will build a mat across the street from you and will probably take 50% of your customer base.

What would I suggest? Start with collecting good researched expense numbers to calculate what it will cost to build a mat. If you think you can support the mat financially for a year then go ahead and build one mat. Medium sized with a small amount of machines so you can have minimal investment with room to grow. If you build a customer base and have a good cash flow then expand to another mat. Only you can determine if the investment is worth the return. Everyone has different needs and living styles so what a return on one mat may be great for one, it may not be suitable for another.

Reading books on the mat business is good, but you should listen to other members on this board that have the day to day experience of owning and running a mat.

How about coming to the states for a few months and working in a mat? It will give you a great insight on the mat business and it would be a cheap way to find out if you really want to get into owing a laundromat.

Duane.

www.LMARIES.com (http://www.LMARIES.com)

[actionmedia]

Duane!

Thank you very much for your avice. I am very happy you "chime in" and I must say I apreciate your pacience and the time you spent to write such a complete answare to my questions.
Your advices are very logical and explain very well to me how the experineced mat owners in USA look to this business.
Some of your advices make me reconsider my plans. But it is better if it is harder, that mean not to many will try it and fewer will succeed. How ever there are some particular aspects about this market and about my plan that you couldn't possible know.
I was planning to reveal this aspects to those who were interested in my proposal.

I will try to reveal part of them now:

1. It is a crude market so I must find the market segments less resisting to changes. Young peuples are the best target.

2. The market must have a real need of this services. I am tinking as first placement in student campus that give me acces to young peuples, they need to wash their clothes, after graduation some of them could be potential customers for other areas, they have no alternative except handwash or trvel few hundred miles home to do laundry, some of them could become partners for extending business in their home town. There already exists ilegal use of home washers by some students who want to make some bucks. They do laundry for other students for money. This is ilegal only because they are not registered and don't pay taxes. This kind of business can not evolve but it shows to me that the market need exists.

3. Here the rent is very low. It is easy to find a location of 1000 sqf with 350 USD/month.

4. Work force is very cheap. You can find very good Multiple Store Manager for only 500 USD/month. Attendant would cost you not more than 200 -250 USD/month including taxes. Small bookeeping (parttime job) around 50 USD/month. Full time accountant 300 USD.

5. For my first mat I plan to rent a builting with almost all utilities in place. Plumbing and everithing should cost not more than 1000 -1500 USD.

6. The utilityes are very cheap, like 1.25 cents/lb for toploads. that mean arownd 15 cents per load. That mean if I charge 1 USD per load it would be 15% of gross.

7. Students don't need big machines because they don't have large loads.

8. Many of them seen, may be used home washers, but not to many used or seen dryers. In their mind they think: "why should I pay to dry when I can hang them on a wire". Could be some situation when they would need very quicly to wash, dry, fold and than wear those clothes like some jeans or tshirt for a party or something. So the number of dryers should be under 50% of the number of the washers.

9. I plan to go unattended 24h/7d. In the campus is always someone wake no matter how late or early it is. With proper promotions I think I could drag peuples in the mat at any hour. I am even thinking ofering a room for studying, many student study in the night. They can study and do laundry in the same time.

10. I plan to use card operated system even for opening the door. This way I can control up to a point how many peuples can be in a mat in the same time by controling the circulation of the cards. Of course many students know each other and can pass the card from one to another but this is not a problem important is the number of cards.

11. If the business is sucessfull and peuples have to stay in line than it is very possible that someone to want to open another mat across the street. I have a back up plan for that. I hope that by than I will manage to develop a strong brand name for my business. Armed with the top brand and the knowledge I plan to offer to chalengers a partenership. I must say it is very dificult to find information and equipment here. Some of them may be will take it some of them may be will not. The fact is that is a way to build franchise (having a brandname and a system).

12. If the store is real small than you don't need to upgrade utilities, or the upgrade would be very cheap.

The rest of the plan and data I keep for myself because may be right this moment some fellow romanians think "what business should I start?" and they somehow reach this information.
If after that exposure someone is interested in partnership over the ocean can write me.
Thanks again Duane, your advices are alwais welcome, I will try to learn the best from them.

Teodor

[Duane]

Teodor,

Your plan is very close to my plan. My store is next to a college and I have large booths so they can study in, I am open 24/7 and use the card system. I would highly recommend of not putting a card system on your front door. How would new customers get in? You never, I mean never, want to control who can do laundry when. Let the customers in and let them make up their own minds to stay or come back later if it is busy.

Many students do like big machines. They don't like to sort and only do their laundry twice a month. One big washer, one big dryer and their done.

Utility upgrades. Yes, a small mat may not need the main utility lines upgraded, but the build out of running the main lines to the equipment will still cost a lot in materials and labor. My internal electric cost was about $5000 just for the material, no labor.

Equipment pricing. You state that you would charge $1 USD per top load. But you also state that a part time person would cost $50 USD per month. Most students only have part time jobs, how can they afford $4-$6 USD per week for laundry? This is where I have problems with the economics. The plan sounds cheap when translated into USD, but what is the cost in your local currency? Will it be affordable for the average student or family?

The last I checked one US dollar was equal to 32,463.67 LEI.

Since you are creating a new market, go with HE front loaders and not the tops. The utilities would then cost you about 5% since they only use about 1/3 of what a top loaders uses. Might as well go all the way with more dryers while you are training your customers on how nice it is to wash, dry and fold all at once.

I too went out on a limb when building my store. There were already 5 mats in town and everyone said I was nuts trying to cut the pie into smaller pieces. I went ahead and built my store by myself. I have been open for about 18 months and my mat has the highest water usage of all mats in town. And I have HE machines so my TPD is much greater than my competition. And sales are still growing.

Keep doing research and work any bugs out of your plan. After you have one store up and running you then can make a decision to go ahead with others.

Duane.

[actionmedia]

Duane,

There are many reasons I want to put card system for front door:
1. This way I can prevent vandalism or I can track the bad guys easyer.
2. Peuples who get cards and have acces there feal more like part owners, I intend to promote it like a club, those who have acces may call themselves members.
3. If the acces is restricted those who don't have access would desire more to get it. It is a marketing strategy when lunch a new product to give less than the market need and create a stronger desire. (this is how "Playboy" lunched here).
4. I can track the customers from the moment they came in to the moment they go out, getting info about how much time they spend in the laundromat.
There are tow more resons I won't disclose.
About the currency exchange rate, the information is correct. One student can have many income sources. My target are those who have a job part time or full time. A part time job offer 50 to 100 USD depending on it's type. There are jobs better payed like in the Clubs, Bars, Pubs - there they can earn 250 - 350 USD. Also those who work in direct sales could have better income.
Except the job there are students that study well and receive bonus payment from university.
Ofcourse the best money source is home.
I have studyed a litle the market and a have seen that 1 of 3 students have a P.C. To have a P.C. in Romania is a sign of wealth.
I am not convinced that here the Romanian students have the same habbits like american students. There are a few foreign students but they mostly come from Africa and Middle East.
I agree with you about front load but I think it should be small capacity like home style. May be some of them would agree to wash their clothes 3 or 4 guys together in the same washer to save some money but most of them would prefer to do it alone.
For sure at the begining they will prefer not to wash all their clothes at the laundromat only specific ones and like you said 2 times per month. For economical reasons.
If I put there 18 lb fronts I shoud charge them like 1.5 USD (50,000 lei) per load and I am sure no one will pay that because they only have to wash 7 to 10 lb.
Like I said before there is some sort of "underground" laundry service provided by students with home washers. They charge 20,000 lei per load that is like 61 cents. I think 30,000 to 35,000 lei per load is a resonable price for professional self service laundry in that campus.
When you say a front use only 1/3 of what top uses you refer to what capacity? You calculate it per pound? It is the same for 12 lb fronts? I have lack of info about the equipment and distributors here only try to scrue me and sell theyr merchendise. They don't usualy sell that kind of equipment and they do not know more than I do about it. They only have o broshure ore something with a nice picture and they say "that is the product it cost that much, do you want it or not".
The only type of equipment I saw it working is Electrolux but it have 50 min cycle!!! It is not very competitive. I think it is designed for small industrial cleaning and adapted for self service.
What is HE?
If you had to deal with strong competiton my problem is here is no signifiant activity in this field.
I thoght I can start by the end of September 2004 but I guess it will take longer.

[StoneColdKiller]

It was a fun read hammerhead!

Good luck *onke*

[Duane]

HE = High Efficiency.

A top load machine will use about 45 gallons of water.

A HE Maytag Neptune will only use about 15 gallons of water (less water/sewer and gas to heat the hot water). It also uses less electric and has a 1000 RPM extract cycle that spins the clothes nearly dry. Dry times are about 20 minutes.

With a HE machine you spend more up front for the machine, but you can save on utilities and dry times.

Have you checked into card systems yet? For your small mat, expect to pay as much for the card system as you are paying for all your laundry equipment.

I still don't agree with you on the card system on the front door. Trying to open up a door with a basket full of laundry is hard enough, but to also need to swipe a card? I just don't think it will work.

[actionmedia]

If this is the best you can do... insulting peuples, I wonder how you deal with your exigent clients.
I belive you should change your nickname to StoneColdKidBrain.
Good luck to you too.

[actionmedia]

Thank you for your advices Duane, you realy helped me. I still have a long way to go but I am convinced I will manage to reach the other end with good advices from peuples like you.
It seems to me you like to teach. Are you a teacher or a trainer or a coach? Did you ever thought making money with this skill? I mean seminars, or writing a book or something.

[actionmedia]

Better later than never I inform those who didn't heard about that yet:
ROMANIA IS NATO MEMBER since tuesday 30 of march 2004.
And guess what our government decided! Free working day Fridey 2d of April for celebration. Good day for laundry, don't you think?

[petefritz]

You better get those 25k mats that will return all the money in 6 months built real quick!~ before the boom.

[actionmedia]

Thanks for the advice, but I will keep the speed I started with. Nice joke!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[actionmedia]

Question for Duane and other users of HE Maytag Neptune:

How much you paid for your 18 lb HE MN? How much for your card system?

Thanks

[actionmedia]

Over 1000 views!!!
This forum is good advertising tool if you know how to use it.
I have recived good feedback from it.
Not find a partner yet, I guess it is way too far for a small investment.
At least I have found some friends and learned many things.
I was about to throw my self in with the head in front. Now I learned some things and make me step back and reanalize and reacalculate.
I still need to do a lot of reserach before I start it.
Thank you all for your advices and my first proposal is still open if one of you think it is the time to face this chalenge.

Teodor

[actionbonehead]

Action,

Hope I do you say itty bitty smart thing, lots 1000 views yes, but so I see you ass still front of cart.

bye,

actionbonehead
Barcelona

[actionmedia]

Thank you for helping me keep this post up and rise the number of views.
You sound like stonecoldkiller.
If you have something against my "action" say it open. I will listen.

[actionmedia]

Since 2 weeks now, there is an advertising campaig for a cellphone company, that campaign use the ideea of building a laundry for students and the need of communication.
That is not all. There are other 3 comercials for diferent brnads that show peoples using vending machines.
Something is happening. The market is being prepared and I think some big players are about to jump in.
Pete was joking about it but realy could be a boom in vending and self service industry very soon.

[Burley]

Who gives a rat's ass?!

I know that is not polite but seriously, who cares. Wow, commercials showing people using vending machines.....oh my!

[actionmedia]

You are missing a point here: <font color="red"> </font color> there is no real vending or self service laundry industry in Romania
I care about it since I want to build a business in that field.
I have considered that could be a good info for some potential partenrs over the seas.
Realy it is a cultural metamorfosis around here it is an oportunity!

[petefritz]

I don't get it, why not just put in a mat somewhere? You make such a big deal about it. You should be able to start one mat, see how it goes, then ask about investors to expend, though I doubt many US dollars will flow your way. This is not a get rich business, and takes hands on to make it work. Keep us informed.

[actionsbonehead]

You are silly, silly eastern European! You build Romanie coin laundry, I have stinky old GE top washer I sell it come ok free with bridge I sell. My Romanie english good aye?

Why it not so really hapening you go away yet?

[actionmedia]

"You are silly, silly eastern European! You build Romanie coin laundry, I have stinky old GE top washer I sell it come ok free with bridge I sell. My Romanie english good aye?
Why it not so really hapening you go away yet?"

I see here a coward and arrogant american - "actionsbonehead". You are a shame to your people. Why don't you use the real identity? Are you afraid or what?
What is your problem? Why so much hate? Peoples like you made possible the atrocities in Irak or in Bosnia or in Kosovo.
Because of peoples like you terorists hate America and inocent peoples get hurt.
Don't get me wrong I admire your culture and your dinamic way of life but I hate the arrogance and brutality.
We Romanians are peaceful peoples, never fight agressive war. Only defended our territory. Remember that Mahomed never conquered Viena because he was forced to take the long way around our land. That's why some European Kingdoms saved their money and send ships over the Atlantic to discover new lands.
I would love to see you how you would manage here in my place.

[actionsbonehead]

Who say me American Yankee? Not I. Sound like you got problem with assumptions come out your mouth. So your name really "actionmedia"?

You forget to mention when Romania side with Nazi's in WWII.

Sorry I can't help me, you posts are way so silly and not worth reading. Romania need laundry then build the damn thing and go away!

[Jefflange]

you open laundry now and shut up. Maybe Germans will invest in your laundry.

[StoneColdKiller]

Could be action media is a big advertiser here like NY Laundry. I'm surprised this thread has not been locked so that it slips away from comment.

[actionmedia]

No problem!
You aswer, I aswer. That is how this thred remain on top.
My goal is to find a good partner to build a laundromat franchize here.
I don't care what you think of me.
If you click on my nick name you will find out my true identity. That is me.
I have this fealing that actionsbonehead and stonecoldkiller are one and same person. If not, it is my mistake.
Side with Germany in WWII? Yes, against Soviet Union because they ocupied our land (Basarabia) and only until august 23 1944. That was not an agressive war. In 1941 Romania was surrounded by enemies and was forced to pick a side.
The others are right, this is no hystoric site and I will not continue with that.
I will build my mat when the time will come. Until then I will keep informed those interested to invest here.
My advice for you is to learn what is patience.

[Burley]

ActionMedia,
I have been reading these posts over the last few months waiting to see if anyone was foolish enough to join in with you on this venture. At first I thought that it would be interesting to learn something and hear the point of view from someone from another country. Then after a while I could see this was going no where. Many of us have tried to tell you to get on with it and good luck. It is not that we don't see your point of view, many of us just don't agree that there is an investment opportunity.

That being said, I have to say your comments just blow me away! "Peoples like you made possible the atrocities in Irak or in Bosnia or in Kosovo.
Because of peoples like you terorists hate America and inocent peoples get hurt.
Don't get me wrong I admire your culture and your dinamic way of life but I hate the arrogance and brutality." It took just a little shot from Actionsbonehead for you to go off on some commentary about Americans in general. I personally can't stand narrow minded thinkers who group people together like you have. Have you been watching too much TV? Arrogance? Brutality? You can freely visit many towns across the U.S. and you won't see any of that. You mention Kosovo, Iraq, and Bosnia. These are just some of a long list of countries where many Americans have died trying to give freedom back to the people who live there! What was your country willing to do when Sadam used mustard gas on his own people? I can't believe we didn't take action then.

You are just another person with one hand stretched out to the US looking for help yet with the other hand behind your back you are holding up the middle finger. I personally wish we would pull out of Iraq, Europe, Korea, and many other locations I don't even know about. Wish those countries good luck and lets us those forces and resources to protect our borders. I wonder how many of those countries in the middle east would want Sadam back in power? We could drag him out of his jail cell and give the keys back to him!!

For those of you reading this other than ActionMedia, I apologize if you see this as a waste of time for this forum. I just can't stand people who group us together and base their opinion on what they see in media coverage and can't think on their own.

[actionsbonehead]

So true!

Sorry to all but I do not really talk the way I have been and I'm not Stone Cold. Just saw the utter waste of this thread and actionmedia's inability to see that, which prompted me to respond with a little biting sarcasm.

I need to get back to work...I'm building a laundry in Bulgaria /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[actionmedia]

Burley!

I was never talk about american in general. I was talking about those peoples that abuse their power no matter if those are americans or other nation. I gived some examples you could know.
Realy I found on this forum many nice guys and we shared information and I don't think all americans are bad guys.
I desegree with US military actions, that is diferent and I belive there are many americans who think the same way.
I apologise if I ofended anyone. Remeber I speak diferent language and sometimes it is possile I make some grammar mistakes and sound diferend.
I say it again, I was looking for an aliance with some experienced guy to build a network of laundromats here. I see this opportunity in my way and I can not explain it on this forum. Because America is the mother of laundromat industry, I thoght this is the place to search.
It is nice to see it kept your interest, no matter of your oppinion.
If some of you hate me that is your bussiness, I am a salesman, many clients "hate" me and they still buy from me.

[actionmedia]

Naucish balgarsky ezik? Zashto ne kajesh neshto po balgarsky. As znam balgarsky ot TV.

This is bulgarian language and I am trying to communicate with actionsbonehead.

[actionsbonehead]

You speak gibberish Bulgarian.

This is not the Bulgarian I know and love! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[actionmedia]

Ti ne znaiesh balgarsky!
What the hell mean "gibberish"?

[actionsbonehead]

That means silly, makes no senceski...just like this whole thread and topic.

It's time to go on to something important. I'm sure you have better things to do???

P.S. Balgarski is capitalized.

[petefritz]

I thought it was Romania you want to learn

[actionmedia]

Liar, Liar, Liar!!!!
You don't know a word of Bulgarian.
It is capitalized in English but in Romanian or Bulgarinan language we capitalize only Names and first word of the sentence. When I say Bulgarian language or Bulgarian people, Bulgarian is not a name it is just a common noun.
You were just bluffing and you thought I was too, but I was not. I realy know Bulgarian language. Bad choice for you.
I am curios. What city in Bulgaria did you pick to build your mat?
Now I will translate what I said in Bulgarian for you and for the others.
First I said:
"Naucish balgarsky ezik? Zashto ne kajesh neshto po balgarsky. As znam balgarsky ot TV."
That mean: "Learn Bulagarian language? Why don't you say something in Bulgarian? I know Bulgarian from TV."
Second:
"Ti ne znaiesh balgarsky."
That mean: "You don't know Bulgarian." Here I was expecting from you to deny. But you didn't so my conclusion is you don't know Bulgarian language. I think you sould start to learn it if you want to build a mat there.
Sorry, I don't want to be sarcastig but you started it.
You think this thread is silly but look there are over 1600 views. Maybe americans like silly threads.
Looking forward to here from you it is realy a plesure to chat with you.

[actionsbonehead]

Wow, you are so smart! You found me out!

I'll let you in on something....IT WAS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!

It is being built in Sofia and I don't need to know Bulgarian, since I have a guy there named Teodor who I pay about .20 cents every three weeks to set it up and run it. He thinks its great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You get life now. I talk here no more..bye bye.

[actionmedia]

You realy are arrogant no matter if you are american or not. I stick to my opinion that you are stone cold. You see there was no deny from him.
I am not smart, I just think.
Thanks, you realy helped me keep this thread on top and make good rating.