Setting Prices in relation to 10lb increments.

[Super Clean]

I was thinking about this post for a bit then read Larry's in regards to pricing with dollar increments so I decided to further it by discussing pricing in relation to 10lb increments.

As we all know most machines are rated 20lb, 25lb, 30lb, 35lb and so forth. I was looking at my machines and realized that my 20lb machines are essentially $3.00 if you take into account the super cycle. That would mean that for every 10lbs the washer holds a customer is paying $1.50. If you were to take this and apply it to other washers pricing would look like this....(as per the size of machines I have and others)

20lb washer is $3.00 (mine are this price)
30lb washer is $4.50
35lb washer is $5.25 (mine are $4.25)
40lb washer is $6.00
60lb washer is $9.00 (mine are not yet set)
80lb washer is $12.00

If a customer is comfortable paying the $3.00 which all my customers are on my 20lb machine why would they not be paying the same 10lb price on all the others?

Through proper signage, if a customer enters the laundromat and it shows laundry costs $1.50 per 10lbs do you think they would understand the pricing structure more? That way when there is a new price increase, you can say the cost of washing is increasing by .25 or .50 or $1.00 per 10lbs.

Larry what do u think about this one.

[Adamski]

Jeff,

I'm glad you brought this up. Anything to further the discussion of how we price our services is helpful to one and all.

Traditionally, laundromats have charged less, on a per pound basis, for the use of our larger washers than we have for our smaller washers. For example: my 20 lb front loaders are $3 (15 cents per lb); my 30 lb front loaders are $4 (13 cents per lb); my 40 lb front loaders are $5 (13 cents per lb) and my 80 lb front loaders are $9 (11 cents per lb). This declining price structure is still common in the industry and it provides a discount to customers with large laundries as compared to the price charged to customers with small laundries.

"Why shouldn't all customers pay the same price per 10 pounds?" The only compelling reason I can think of is because virtually every laundromat provides a discount for large wash customers and I wouldn't want to be the first to take that discount away from them.

[pressandclean]

My pricing on Dexter washers:

30# 3.00
40# 4.00
60# 6.00
80# 8.00

I have 2 toploaders, that are actually doubles, priced at 2.00

Althought the prices are a bit low, the strategy seems to work fine.

[Howard]

...and maybe this discount based on size is why customers use these large machines. If pricing were the same or more for large machines I would think customers would generally not use them. Why on earth would you want to throw the mixed laundry for a family of four into an 80# washer rather than use four 20# washers and keep each persons clothing separated. It takes a lot of time to accurately separate those four people's clothing from the 80# washer while it is already separate in the four 20# washers.

[pressandclean]

Howard, my bigest washers are the closest to the door. When customers come in with a lot of laundry, they just start loading in the order of 80, 60, 40. Many of today's customers don't sort their clothes. They just throw everything in together and wash with cold water. They want to get done and out fast. Also, for the people who come to wash big items, the smaller washers are not an option.

[Super Clean]

Discussion is always good. I understand the discount for larger loads but like Mike has said and has done with a similar price struction that I have mentioned, the time savings to throw all the laundry into one large machine instead of sorting into smaller machines is savings enough for a lot of ppl.

[pressandclean]

Yes, from watching my customers, about half couldn't sort them if you put a gun to their head. And the way another 25% sorts them makes no sense whatsoever.

[pressandclean]

Sorry, I forgot to mention another 5% that sorting doesn't make any difference because there is no room for water:p

[Super Clean]

I see some customers sort out two loads that are identical and when I say oh, wash it in one machine its cheaper, they always tell me that it's two seperate loads.

If we priced according to my $1.50 per 10lbs or $0.75 per 5lbs since that is how all the machines are "rated", what kind of percentage decrease do you guys see as worth while when pricing the larger machines.

[Howard]

Think maybe my comment on sorting was not understood. I am not talking about sorting by colors versus whites I am talking about keeping each kid's laundry separate from Mom's and Dad's. Think about what a pain it is to sort out the clothing of your 7, 8 and 9 year old boys. They are all very close in size and Johnny may get Peter's clothing and Paul may never see his favorite shirt again cause it got buried with Johnny's stuff.

I have one WDF customer that has me do separate orders for each family member - comes in to use in separate bags and goes out that way. Makes their life much easier.

[DaveLevenson]

I have at least one customer who comes in every week with five small loads, uses five top-loaders, and then five dryers. I once mentioned that she could save by combining loads in a larger machine. But she agrees with Howard; she saves time and doesn't mind paying for five machines. Each member of her household has his or her own clothes hamper, and their laundry remains separate. (Her reply was something like: "If I wanted to combine loads and save quarters, I'd use my own washer and dryer.")

Apparently she's a satisfied customer; she's been coming in almost every week for almost five years.

[STOUT]

So for curiosity sake. Should the same be said for dryers?
Should we price them by # 30, 45, 50, etc?
Or should we price them comparable to how much BTU"s they consume according to the manufactures published #,s?
For example my 30# use 75,000 BTU. At 8 min for .25 cents.
My 45# stack uses 190,000, that would be 95,000 per tumbler. At 6 min for .25 cents. Both have a 2 minute cool down at the END of the cycle.
That would be a 21% increase in BTU from the 30 # to the 45#.
Yet if you go by # difference in the 30# to 45# it equals out to be 33% larger by poundage.
I do not have the figures by cu ft volume.

[Adamski]

Deward,

I think the level of service being offered to the customer is more important than the actual cost of offering the service. With that in mind, I like to compute "pound-minutes" to help me determine dryer pricing. For example: my 30 lb dryers run 20 minutes per dollar coin so the customer is getting 600 (30 x 20) pound-minutes per dollar. My 35 lb dryers run 18 minutes per dollar coin so the customer is getting 630 (35 x 18) pound-minutes per dollar. Obviously, my 35 lb dryers are a better deal (30 more pound-minutes) assuming the customer has enough clothes to load them properly.

You would calculate your pound-minutes the same way except it would be for 25 cents. Your 30 lb dryer running 8 minutes per quarter would be 240 (30 x 8) pound-minutes per quarter. Your 45 lb dryer running 6 minutes per quarter would be 270 (45 x 6) pound-minutes per quarter. The 45 lb dryer is the better deal at 30 extra pound-minutes.

[pressandclean]

How long does it take a dryer rated at 70,000 BTU to burn 70,000 BTU?

[Howard]

Well it depends on what is in a dryer and the specific dryer. I have calculated over time that my dryers on average use just over 50% of the rated BTU/HR for each hour of usage.

[Super Clean]

What would be an appropriate discount as you move up in the size of machine you use?

A 20lb is priced at $3.00 or $1.50 per 10lbs

40lb machine with a 10% discount in price? So roughly $0.50? or $5.50 (for non card guys)

60lb machine with a 10% discount would be $1.00 off $9.00 or $8.00 (based off of pricing from the 20lb) or do you discount off of what two 40lb machines would of cost so $11.00 minus 10% for $10.00 or a $1.00 savings again. I think the $10.00 price would definately be a price leader.

Or do we discount 20% or 25%. I think it would be nice to explain to a customer what the difference in price is by telling them they receive a percentage off when moving up a washer.

[pressandclean]

I personally think the dryers should be priced at about 250% of the maximum rated fuel cost.

[Adamski]

How long does it take a dryer rated at 70,000 BTU to burn 70,000 BTU?

Mike,

A dryer's BTU rating is the amount of gas a dryer would burn in an hour if the burner was on all the time. Obviously, the burner is not on all the time though. Generally, the burner is on from dryer start until it reaches set operating temperature. From that point until cool-down, the burner cycles on and off being on about 40% of the time. Finally, at cool-down, the burner is, of course, off.

So, to answer your question, assuming it takes 10 minutes for the dryer to reach set operating temperature, it would burn 11,666 BTU in this part of the cycle. That leaves 58,334 BTU left over. The dryer would then need to run an additional 124 minutes to burn up that 58,334 BTU. Adding in the initial heat up and a 1 minute cool-down, total run time is estimated to be 135 minutes (2 hours - 15 minutes) to burn the full, rated 70,000 BTU.

[Super Clean]

So, to answer your question.

Larry, what about my question lol.

[Adamski]

Larry, what about my question lol.

Jeff,

My medium sized front loaders are discounted 13% and my large front loaders are discounted 27% off the price of my top loaders. However, this is not a fact that I offer to customers as I really don't care what size washers they use as long as they don't stuff a quilt into a top loader. I just let each customer select the washers they like best for the laundry they are doing that day. All washer sizes and prices are clearly marked with signage.

[pressandclean]

Great answer Larry! I think that is important information for anyone to use in setting their dryer pricing.

[Adamski]

Great answer Larry! I think that is important information for anyone to use in setting their dryer pricing.

Mike,

I just love impressing you guys.:)

[pressandclean]

You would really impress me if you would come and convert my machines to dollar coins for me!

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

My medium sized front loaders are discounted 13% and my large front loaders are discounted 27% off the price of my top loaders. However, this is not a fact that I offer to customers as I really don't care what size washers they use as long as they don't stuff a quilt into a top loader. I just let each customer select the washers they like best for the laundry they are doing that day. All washer sizes and prices are clearly marked with signage.

Mine are all clearly marked as well. Sometimes I see someone filling two 20lb machines when they could just move up and use a 35lb machine instead. Sometimes its easier for me just to say you save xamount% when you move up a machine size.

I also want to make sure I set my prices on my machines to make the most sense. I need to move my 35lb machines up 50cents more to $4.75 instead of the $4.25 and that way I can set my 60lb machines with aproximately 20% savings at $8.00. With only a 50cent savings to move up to a larger machine, it may not be worth it for everyone but make that 1.50 and it is.

[pressandclean]

I really don't understand why owners feel the need to price the big machines cheaper.

The big machines are why many people go to the laundromat. About 1/3 of my customers have regular sized washing machines at home.

My T-1200 and 80# dryer are the biggest within 30 miles. They should rate a premium price.

[Super Clean]

I really don't understand why owners feel the need to price the big machines cheaper.

The big machines are why many people go to the laundromat. About 1/3 of my customers have regular sized washing machines at home.

My T-1200 and 80# dryer are the biggest within 30 miles. They should rate a premium price.

I do agree with you their Mike. After adding my 4 60lb machines and 45lb dryers I'll have the largest washers and dryers in my town and the town over from me. There is one other location in my town with a T900 I believe with a price set at $7.00. I may go and confirm the size on the machine today. I don't think its a T600. They also have I think 4 T300's total with $4.00 price and I have 6 MFR35's set at $4.25.

I'd really like to get the $8.00 a load on the 60 and then offer the Quick Wash possibliy at $7.00. Larry, Mike and anyone else, what do you think a fair price for a 1 wash and 2 rinse cycle with the wash set to high level on the water is if I'm charging $8.00 on a 2 wash 3 rinse regular cycle?

[pressandclean]

Jeff, I think your better off having the regular cycle at 1 suds and 2 rinses. Then for an "upcharge," the customers can opt for an extended cycle.

I wouldn't necessarily set the water level higher, as that affects the mechanical action of the wash.

[Adamski]

... I'd really like to get the $8.00 a load on the 60 and then offer the Quick Wash possibliy at $7.00. Larry, Mike and anyone else, what do you think a fair price for a 1 wash and 2 rinse cycle with the wash set to high level on the water is if I'm charging $8.00 on a 2 wash 3 rinse regular cycle?

Jeff,

Well, I'm not really familiar with Dexter's current pricing options on their washers. If you can do per cycle pricing where you can program a different price for each available cycle, then you have lots of options. I don't see why any cycle would need 2 washes though. Do your washers extract after each bath? If not, the suds from the wash is carried into the first rinse and that bath acts more like a second wash than a rinse. So right there, you have 2 washes. Then the other 2 rinses act more like true rinses.

[Super Clean]

Larry and Mike the new washers are Electrolux washers. The rest of the equipment is all Maytag which comes with pre/main wash and no real options to not have it. My customers know that they get 2 washes as standard so they would see the new machines without it as a downgrade and expect to pay less. The quickwash would be less money/fast alternative.

The quickwash is factory set with a Medium Level wash while the regular cyle washes are set with low level water settings for both pre and main wash. The quickwash also features 2 rinses of 1 minute and 2 minutes before the final spin. Regular wash cycles have 3 rinses of 1 min, 1 min, 2 min.

I have not finished installing the machines so I don't know if there is a short spin before the main wash or not. I know the Maytag equipment does.

The Factory Settings on the washers have a 3 minute and 6 minute pre and main and 3 rinses. The quickwash with a 4 min main with 2 rinses. The delicate setting is a 4min main with 3 rinses. Ther are also two pre-programmed buttons on the front for an extra rinse (so the possiblity of 4 rinses) and extra soiled which gives a 3 minute pre-soak and a 2 minute increase in the main wash. I was going to charge .25cents for the extra rinse and .50cents for the extra soiled.

[pressandclean]

Jeff, the normal laundromat cycle in my part of the U.S. is 1 suds and 2 rinses. That is what the other mats offer and what mine is compared to. In deciding which laundromat to use, I don't think customers compare the number of suds and rinses. If your competition's normal wash is your "quickwash," that's a real problem for you.

Besides your increased costs, remember the customers want to get out fast.

If it was me in my area, I would change the normal wash to 1 suds and 2 rinses. The quickwash I would program for suds, 30 sec spin, high-level rinse. I would maintain a premium price on your other machines with the prewash.

[Adamski]

... The Factory Settings on the washers have a 3 minute and 6 minute pre and main and 3 rinses. The quickwash with a 4 min main with 2 rinses. The delicate setting is a 4min main with 3 rinses. Ther are also two pre-programmed buttons on the front for an extra rinse (so the possiblity of 4 rinses) and extra soiled which gives a 3 minute pre-soak and a 2 minute increase in the main wash. I was going to charge .25cents for the extra rinse and .50cents for the extra soiled.

Jeff,

It appears these foreign made Electrolux washers are programmed much differently than my 2 year old Huebsch washers which also have an Extra Wash and Extra Rinse upcharge options. Mine came with factory programmed cycles that have 1 wash (4 minutes) and 2 rinses (3 minutes each) and 1 extract (5 minutes) at the end. The main differences amoung the 6 basic cycles is the water temperature, water level and type of agitation (normal or gentle). After selecting her cycle, a customer can add an Extra Wash or an Extra Rinse for $1.00 each.

I've had zero complaints about the results obtained with the 6 basic cycles on these washers. I don't see any over-sudsing problems either. Sometimes people buy an upgrade option but usually they don't. In fact, I was so happy with these basic cycles that I removed the 3rd rinse from the 8 cycles on my 8 year old Huebsch 40 lb and 80 lb washers. Those washers do not have the Extra Wash or Extra Rinse options and they never had a Pre Wash.

My conclusion is that at least for my customers, having pre-washes and third rinses is a waste of water, sewage, energy and customer time. For these reasons, I am satisfied with my Huebsch washers' fast, 20 minute cycles.

[Super Clean]

It's split here on what's normal. Stores with Dexter Washers of course do not have pre-wash. Stores with Maytag and Wascomat do have the pre-wash. So to be at a disadvantage to other stores? No, I don't think so. I'm the only store in my town with pre wash. The town over from me, two of the 4 stores have wasco/maytag so they offer prewash. I'm not 100% sure if the Conti stuff offer pre wash.

The flip side and where I see your point is my MAH22's and Neptunes don't offer prewash or at least I don't have it set (only one soap compartment) but I can't delete the 3 rinses. So I'm stuck with 19 washers that have the no pre wash option and 11 washers that have the pre-wash which means I have to maintain it in order not to confuse customers. Neptunes are easy enough because of the single detergent compartment.

Larry, I know you made a post on how you price your baths...care to share that again.

Lets go under the assumption that I am going to remain with 2 wash 3 rinse as the standard wash. I currently charge $4.25 on my 35lb machine. Competition with Dexter charges $4.00 on a 30lb the other $4.00 on a 40lb. Where do you think I should price my machines based on this.

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

It appears these foreign made Electrolux washers are programmed much differently than my 2 year old Huebsch washers which also have an Extra Wash and Extra Rinse upcharge options. Mine came with factory programmed cycles that have 1 wash (4 minutes) and 2 rinses (3 minutes each) and 1 extract (5 minutes) at the end. The main differences amoung the 6 basic cycles is the water temperature, water level and type of agitation (normal or gentle). After selecting her cycle, a customer can add an Extra Wash or an Extra Rinse for $1.00 each.

I've had zero complaints about the results obtained with the 6 basic cycles on these washers. I don't see any over-sudsing problems either. Sometimes people buy an upgrade option but usually they don't. In fact, I was so happy with these basic cycles that I removed the 3rd rinse from the 8 cycles on my 8 year old Huebsch 40 lb and 80 lb washers. Those washers do not have the Extra Wash or Extra Rinse options and they never had a Pre Wash.

My conclusion is that at least for my customers, having pre-washes and third rinses is a waste of water, sewage, energy and customer time. For these reasons, I am satisfied with my Huebsch washers' fast, 20 minute cycles.

Larry, you get an extra dollar on your extra rinse option?

[STOUT]

[QUOTE=Super Clean;42247]

The flip side and where I see your point is my MAH22's and Neptunes don't offer prewash or at least I don't have it set (only one soap compartment) but I can't delete the 3 rinses. So I'm stuck with 19 washers that have the no pre wash option and 11 washers that have the pre-wash which means I have to maintain it in order not to confuse customers. Neptunes are easy enough because of the single detergent compartment.



Check your manual I think you can program it with a pre-wash

[BCW]

It's split here on what's normal. Stores with Dexter Washers of course do not have pre-wash. Stores with Maytag and Wascomat do have the pre-wash. So to be at a disadvantage to other stores? No, I don't think so. I'm the only store in my town with pre wash. The town over from me, two of the 4 stores have wasco/maytag so they offer prewash. I'm not 100% sure if the Conti stuff offer pre wash.

The flip side and where I see your point is my MAH22's and Neptunes don't offer prewash or at least I don't have it set (only one soap compartment) but I can't delete the 3 rinses. So I'm stuck with 19 washers that have the no pre wash option and 11 washers that have the pre-wash which means I have to maintain it in order not to confuse customers. Neptunes are easy enough because of the single detergent compartment.

Larry, I know you made a post on how you price your baths...care to share that again.

Lets go under the assumption that I am going to remain with 2 wash 3 rinse as the standard wash. I currently charge $4.25 on my 35lb machine. Competition with Dexter charges $4.00 on a 30lb the other $4.00 on a 40lb. Where do you think I should price my machines based on this.

You can program Dexters for a pre-wash. Don't know why you would, but you can if you wish to. Neptunes can be programed for no pre-wash. They can also be programed for 2 rinses instead of 3. I have mine set for a 1 min. pre-wash and 2 rinses. Suds detection OFF.(this option really screws them up) 32 min.(shortest cycle) They will use them more if you set yours to these options. Customers don't like long cycles at all. The 1 min pre-wash is to dump all of that chemical that they just poured in there. It helps the machine manage soap better.

Tom

[Super Clean]

Tom,

I know we discussed the 1 minute pre wash and yes I know there is a pre=wash there. I'm pretty sure you can't get below the 3 rinses however.

[Adamski]

Jeff,

To answer your questions:

I'm charging $1.00 per bath on my 20 lb Huebsch front loaders; $1.33 per bath on my 30 lb Huebsch front loaders; $1.67 per bath on my 40 lb Huebsch front loaders and $3.00 per bath on my 80 lb Huebsch front loaders. All these washers have 1 wash and 2 rinses in the basic cycles. The newer 20 lb and 30 lb washers offer the option to buy additional baths at $1.00 each. All of these prices work out to even dollar amounts as I'm vending on dollar coins only.

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

To answer your questions:

I'm charging $1.00 per bath on my 20 lb Huebsch front loaders; $1.33 per bath on my 30 lb Huebsch front loaders; $1.67 per bath on my 40 lb Huebsch front loaders and $3.00 per bath on my 80 lb Huebsch front loaders. All these washers have 1 wash and 2 rinses in the basic cycles. The newer 20 lb and 30 lb washers offer the option to buy additional baths at $1.00 each. All of these prices work out to even dollar amounts as I'm vending on dollar coins only.

A little comparison based on your method of pricing:

Machine -- Larry (3baths) -- Jeff Current (5baths) --Jeff (Larry's Method)

20lb --------- $3.00 ----------- $3.00 --------------- $5.00

40lb --------- $5.00 ----------- $4.25 --------------- $8.25


So if I took your current Math and took my 60lb machine at $0.04lb multiplied it by 60, I would come out to $2.40 a bath or $2.50 for round numbers.

My 60lb with 3 baths would vend for $7.50 and 5 baths would vend for $12.50. I highly doubt I could get the $12.50. The $7.50 vend however only puts me $0.50 beyond my competition that only has one machine, I have 4. Add on another $2.50 for extra soil and $2.50 for extra rinse and you could be looking at $17.50....woahhh lol.

Larry, is my math somewhat accurate for my 60lb? Would you use the same pricing strategy on an extra rinse and extra soil (if you had the capablity) of charging $3.00 each on the 80lb or would they be set at a very economical $1.00 each?

[Adamski]

... My 60lb with 3 baths would vend for $7.50 and 5 baths would vend for $12.50. I highly doubt I could get the $12.50. The $7.50 vend however only puts me $0.50 beyond my competition that only has one machine, I have 4. Add on another $2.50 for extra soil and $2.50 for extra rinse and you could be looking at $17.50....woahhh lol.

Larry, is my math somewhat accurate for my 60lb? Would you use the same pricing strategy on an extra rinse and extra soil (if you had the capablity) of charging $3.00 each on the 80lb or would they be set at a very economical $1.00 each?

Jeff,

First of all, don't be so quick to round up from $2.40 to $2.50. Instead, do your rounding after you arrive at the price. If I had a 60 lb Huebsch washer (A Micro), here's how I'd do it:

1 Wash and 2 Rinse cycles priced at (3 x $2.40 = $7.20) rounded to $7.00. Extra Wash option would be an additional $1.00. Extra Rinse option would be an additional $1.00. Basic cycle with both options would cost $9.00 total.

If my 80 lb Huebsch washers had the A micro instead of the B micro, I'd sell the Extra Wash and Extra Rinse options for $1.00 each.

Some unsolicited advice: Try to figure out what kind of wash your customers want most. Do they want a nice, long, expensive, 5 bath wash that might remove another 3% of the soil (at most) or do they want a good, 3 bath wash that is fast and gets their clothes clean enough considering they're just going to get dirty again?

[Adamski]

Jeff,

Here's another way you can look at your 60 lb washers:

Program and price them for 3 bath cycles. Any customers who want 4 or 5 baths can buy that kind of cycle by buying the optional Extra Wash or Extra Rinse. Why make everybody wait for a 5 bath cycle to finish when their clothes might not be very dirty to begin with?

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

Here's another way you can look at your 60 lb washers:

Program and price them for 3 bath cycles. Any customers who want 4 or 5 baths can buy that kind of cycle by buying the optional Extra Wash or Extra Rinse. Why make everybody wait for a 5 bath cycle to finish when their clothes might not be very dirty to begin with?

Larry I fully plan on offering the 3 bath wash as a starting point on the washer pricing. It was something I was looking forward to being able to offer with the new machines when I bought them.

Other then my pricing on the 60lb (even at $7.50) I still offer a nicer laundromat and 4 machines vs only 1 that my competition offers, how do you feel my comparison on the 20 and 40lb looked?

If I price my quickwash at $3.00 (going rate more or less), I need to decide what to price my 5 bath washes at. I like to be able to offer uniform pricing on the same sized machines. My 5 bath only Maytags will need to increase in price, just a matter of what should it increase by.

Also you mentioned that you would charge a $1.00 for the extra rinse from the 20lb all the way up to the 80lb, any thoughts why even though the bigger machine the more water? I charge a very paltry $0.25 which I believe is way to low. I may cut back on my wash times on the machines as much as I can and then add the extra long wash/rinse vs the rinse and charge the $1.00.

[Adamski]

Jeff,

Many operators, like you, only charge a quarter for an extra bath option. I charge a dollar. I think the dollar would more than cover the extra 20 - 25 gallon of water and tiny bit of electricity that my 80 lb washer would use if I could offer the extra bath option on those washers.

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

Many operators, like you, only charge a quarter for an extra bath option. I charge a dollar. I think the dollar would more than cover the extra 20 - 25 gallon of water and tiny bit of electricity that my 80 lb washer would use if I could offer the extra bath option on those washers.

The dollar you charge on the 20lb washer for the extra rinse would definately make some money for you as well ;)

[BCW]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamski http://www.planetlaundry.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.planetlaundry.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42312#post42312)
Jeff,

Many operators, like you, only charge a quarter for an extra bath option. I charge a dollar. I think the dollar would more than cover the extra 20 - 25 gallon of water and tiny bit of electricity that my 80 lb washer would use if I could offer the extra bath option on those washers.




The dollar you charge on the 20lb washer for the extra rinse would definately make some money for you as well ;)
Larry, as you well know, on Dexters the .25 is for extra time only. No extra bath feature offered. Only costs a few extra cents in elect. for that.

Tom

[Adamski]

...Larry, as you well know, on Dexters the .25 is for extra time only. No extra bath feature offered. Only costs a few extra cents in elect. for that.

Tom,

No, I didn't know that. So the extra charge just extends the Wash bath? Interesting but I wouldn't think that would be of any real benefit to a customer with a very dirty load.


It's my understanding that, during a Wash bath, most soil is removed in the first minute. A normal Wash bath is about 4 minutes long. I wouldn't think adding another 2 - 3 minutes to the Wash bath would accomplish anything because the detergent has lost its punch in the first couple of minutes if it's a heavily soiled load. On the other hand, draining that very dirty water away and beginning a second Wash bath with fresh detergent does have a chance of actually removing a little more soil.

[pressandclean]

Larry, I think the extended cycle on Dexter increases the wash time from 6 min to 9 min. That is like increasing the mechanical action by 50%. Another suds may be better, but there is a benefit to it. I recommend it to the customers that have heavily soiled clothes or overload the washers.

[Super Clean]

Without testing it, the Heavy Soil on the Wascomats gives you a 3 minute pre-soak which I don't know if they drain before adding the soap. It then extends the was like the Dexter from 6 minutes to 9 minutes. I beleive the magic number for detergent losing its hold and having the dirt reconstitute itself back on the clothing is is in the 13-14 minute mark.

[Adamski]

... I beleive the magic number for detergent losing its hold and having the dirt reconstitute itself back on the clothing is is in the 13-14 minute mark.

Jeff,

When I said the detergent loses its punch after a couple of minutes, I was not referring to its ability to prevent redeposition of soil back onto fabric. I was referring to the detergent's ability to disolve oils, etc. in a heavily soiled load.

[Super Clean]

Jeff,

When I said the detergent loses its punch after a couple of minutes, I was not referring to its ability to prevent redeposition of soil back onto fabric. I was referring to the detergent's ability to disolve oils, etc. in a heavily soiled load.

I see what your saying Larry, which then moves on to your new post on how do you effectively remove this dirt from the clothes. The pre soak, pre wash and main wash would do a good job, it gets to the point however that only so much soap will grab so much dirt or grease before I think you need to rewash.

[STOUT]

I see what your saying Larry, which then moves on to your new post on how do you effectively remove this dirt from the clothes. The pre soak, pre wash and main wash would do a good job, it gets to the point however that only so much soap will grab so much dirt or grease before I think you need to rewash.

Would that depend on the quality of the soap used?

[Super Clean]

I think quality of soap plays a big factor. Someone once told me most of the detergents come from the same factory but there is a difference. Pre-soaking helps in lifting the dirt from the clothes easier in my opinion.

[BCW]

Tom,

No, I didn't know that. So the extra charge just extends the Wash bath? Interesting but I wouldn't think that would be of any real benefit to a customer with a very dirty load.


It's my understanding that, during a Wash bath, most soil is removed in the first minute. A normal Wash bath is about 4 minutes long. I wouldn't think adding another 2 - 3 minutes to the Wash bath would accomplish anything because the detergent has lost its punch in the first couple of minutes if it's a heavily soiled load. On the other hand, draining that very dirty water away and beginning a second Wash bath with fresh detergent does have a chance of actually removing a little more soil.

Larry,

It adds an additional 3 min. extra wash time. I just raised prices on my 5, 45 lb. T-600's today. Old price $5.00 w/.25 extra wash time. New price $5.50 w/.50 extra wash time. A possible $6.00 and .75 additional profit.

Tom

[Adamski]

... I just raised prices on my 5, 45 lb. T-600's today. Old price $5.00 w/.25 extra wash time. New price $5.50 w/.50 extra wash time. A possible $6.00 and .75 additional profit.

Tom,

A T600 is now rated at 45 pounds? The T-600 refers to the cubic foot capacity of the basket - 6.00 cf. So now Dexter is saying that a 6 cubic foot basket holds 45 pounds of clothes? Ten years ago I had Milnors that had a 6.14 cf basket and were rated at 35 pounds. My Huebsch have 6.3 cf baskets rated at 40 pounds. At this rate, all these washers will be rated at 75 pounds in another 20 years.

Regardless of the absurd poundage ratings; I think you're doing the right thing to up your price if your customers can accept the change.

[BCW]

Tom,

A T600 is now rated at 45 pounds? The T-600 refers to the cubic foot capacity of the basket - 6.00 cf. So now Dexter is saying that a 6 cubic foot basket holds 45 pounds of clothes? Ten years ago I had Milnors that had a 6.14 cf basket and were rated at 35 pounds. My Huebsch have 6.3 cf baskets rated at 40 pounds. At this rate, all these washers will be rated at 75 pounds in another 20 years.

Regardless of the absurd poundage ratings; I think you're doing the right thing to up your price if your customers can accept the change.

Larry,
Dexter models all have a 5lb. range. It's just how they rate their machines. T-600, for example, says 40-45 in the manual. I had signs on them for a time adv. as 40 lb. machines. I'm getting an led sign and will buy 2 more if it works to my satisfaction. From that led sign I will organize everything as far as sizes and prices. I'm hoping they will become mesmerized by the led signs so that they will pay some attention to the words going across them.

Tom

[pressandclean]

Customers don't look at the load rating, poundage signs or number of baths. They look at the size of the drum. The more cubic feet it has, the more they can cram in, and the more they are willing to pay.

I almost didn't buy Dexter because of the small drum size when compared to the rated capacity.

[Super Clean]

Customers don't look at the load rating, poundage signs or number of baths. They look at the size of the drum. The more cubic feet it has, the more they can cram in, and the more they are willing to pay.

I almost didn't buy Dexter because of the small drum size when compared to the rated capacity.

Mike,

I disagree with you there....when new customers walk through the door, they walk around reading the fronts of machines and then say "oh this is a double" "oh here is the triple". I think it helps newbies find a machine they "think" they need. Over time they know how much to put in and then no longer look at the ratings.

Dexter has a 45lb machine that has almost the same size cuft capacity as my 35lb Maytag lol. That's what led me to ask should I market my 35lb as a 4 load machine if my competition has 30 and 40 lb Dexters promoted as 3 or 4 loads.

[pressandclean]

I disagree Jeff. Watch closer. They may see that a machine says "triple," but they will look inside and say "my 3 heaping baskets won't fit in there, so, it's not a "triple loader."

[Super Clean]

I disagree Jeff. Watch closer. They may see that a machine says "triple," but they will look inside and say "my 3 heaping baskets won't fit in there, so, it's not a "triple loader."

Ahhhhh, I don't know....us Canadians must be a little different. It also helps if you have 2x Load, 3x Load and 6x Load because I have ppl coming in with Comforters saying "where is your large machines"....common sense to them would say 6x Load would be the large machine compared to 3x Load lol.


I do agree that lb rating on machines is kind of dumb. It's pretty hard to fit 40lbs into a 40lb machine in my opinion. Also, customers aren't smart enough if your sign says 6.0cuft machine, 8 cuft machine.

What would you say is the best way to tell customers the size of machine? Or would u have no size shown and let them walk around just checking them all before using them?

[pressandclean]

Jeff, the price on the machine is really enough for them to decide.

[Super Clean]

Jeff, the price on the machine is really enough for them to decide.

I will agree with you there with certain customers. Like the lady who came in with her Queen Sized comforter, she walked up to the 35lber, made a face at the $4.25. She then walked around to my old Wascomats20lb (since been removed in the last 2 weeks) rammed her comforter into the machine, looked at the $2.00 price then asked my sister if we had any Top Loaders to use. My sister told her no and she said she would come back because she didn't have enough money to use the machine. She never returned.

I was curious how much she thought that TL would of cost her. I also was curious to know what made her think she could ram it into my TL and "wreck it" instead of her own at home.

I do have customers that read the size, load the machine then ask me how much the machien is though. So it works both ways. I still think having a machine size will guide a customer to a certain machine and then they can decide larger or smaller from there.

[Adamski]

Jeff,

It's an age-old question - "How do I label my washers?" I had a problem years ago because I called my 6.1 cf Milnors "Triple Loader". Then my competitors started buying new Dexter T-400s which are labeled "Triple Loader". Of course these Dexters were only 2/3rds the size of my Milnors but both were being called the same thing. To make matters worse, the comp's Dexters were only 2/3rds the price of my Milnors.

To eliminate the confusion and inequity, I began calling my Milnors "Giants" as that's what they were compared to the little T-400 Dexter. To this day, I call my 2.5 cf toploaders "Single Loader"; my 3 cf front loaders "Double Loader"; my 4 cf front loaders "Triple Loader"; my 6.3 cf front loaders "Giant Washer" and my 12.9 cf front loaders "Super Giant Washer". This helps to clue people in as to how one size compares to another size or to a size at another laundromat even.

[Super Clean]

"Super Giant Washer".

I like that one lol. I know what you mean though with the Dexter Machines being undersized but labeled the same as the larger 35lb machine. Too much confusion.

I think I'm going to stick with;

2X Load
4X Load
6X Load

...and then have the picture of coresponding number of baskets beside it. Or go with 2X Load (Double), 4X Load (Giant), 6X Load (Mega)

[STOUT]

I will agree with you there with certain customers. Like the lady who came in with her Queen Sized comforter, she walked up to the 35lber, made a face at the $4.25. She then walked around to my old Wascomats20lb (since been removed in the last 2 weeks) rammed her comforter into the machine, looked at the $2.00 price then asked my sister if we had any Top Loaders to use. My sister told her no and she said she would come back because she didn't have enough money to use the machine. She never returned.


Well at least you got to keep the "Queen Sized comforter"! :D

[BCW]

I like that one lol. I know what you mean though with the Dexter Machines being undersized but labeled the same as the larger 35lb machine. Too much confusion.

I think I'm going to stick with;

2X Load
4X Load
6X Load

...and then have the picture of coresponding number of baskets beside it. Or go with 2X Load (Double), 4X Load (Giant), 6X Load (Mega)

Or, to prevent customer confusion, just adv. them with what it shows on the machine (x # baskets on front label)

Tom

[pressandclean]

On the front of the Dexters they have the small round baskets, not the heaping, big rectangle baskets.

[pressandclean]

Larry, so all this time when you talk about your pricing, it is high because your machines are under-rated?

[Super Clean]

Well at least you got to keep the "Queen Sized comforter"! :D

No No she took it with her when she left to get the money lol.

[Super Clean]

Or, to prevent customer confusion, just adv. them with what it shows on the machine (x # baskets on front label)

Tom

Tom,

My Maytags and the new Wascomats don't show baskets on the front of the machine. The newer (less then 4 years old) show baskets on the Maytags.

[Adamski]

Larry, so all this time when you talk about your pricing, it is high because your machines are under-rated?

Mike,

No, they're not under-rated today. My 30 lb, 4 cf, $4.00 washers, for example, are called "Triple Loader" just like Dexter and Wascomat call that size washer "Triple Loader". The reference to my Milnors (which were replaced by Huebsch) happened way back in the 1990s when Dexter started coming out with Thoroughbreds (model Ts). But Dexter didn't start this trend. That honor goes to Wascomat. Since non of my 8 competitors own Wascomats, I was unaffected by their capacity exaggeration until Dexter started doing it.

[pressandclean]

Okay, Larry, my mistake. But, you know, those 4cf are actually the future quadriple loaders.

We need one of the members of this BB, who is a math student, to do some calculating. Here is the problem to solve: For the volume of the Dexter washers, compute the actual dimensions that the baskets shown on the front of the washer would be.

[Adamski]

... For the volume of the Dexter washers, compute the actual dimensions that the baskets shown on the front of the washer would be.

Mike,

Simple. I compute that those should be 5 gallon buckets rather than small baskets.

We were in my new competitor's laundromat last week (to introduce my wife and my self) and I noticed that the new 50 lb Dexter Express washer has a large diameter/shallow depth basket. In fact, it looked like the basket was no more than 14" deep. It occurred to me that it might be a little difficult to fully load such a high basket as the shallow depth might encourage clothing to fall toward the large door opening and perhaps even get caught in the seal when the door is closed. Has anyone who owns the 50 lb Dexter Express washer noticed this problem?

[BCW]

Mike,

Simple. I compute that those should be 5 gallon buckets rather than small baskets.

We were in my new competitor's laundromat last week (to introduce my wife and my self) and I noticed that the new 50 lb Dexter Express washer has a large diameter/shallow depth basket. In fact, it looked like the basket was no more than 14" deep. It occurred to me that it might be a little difficult to fully load such a high basket as the shallow depth might encourage clothing to fall toward the large door opening and perhaps even get caught in the seal when the door is closed. Has anyone who owns the 50 lb Dexter Express washer noticed this problem?


Sounds like the same basket they use in the T-400 30lb. Kinda like a Huebsch, eh Larry. Agressive lift.

Tom

[Adamski]

Sounds like the same basket they use in the T-400 30lb. Kinda like a Huebsch, eh Larry. Agressive lift.

Tom,

High lift is a good thing. It just seemed really extreme on that 50 lb Dexter ... maybe not.

[pressandclean]

The shallower the basket, the lighter the frame can be. On the T-350 and T-450, Dexter uses the same base and frame.

[Adamski]

The shallower the basket, the lighter the frame can be. On the T-350 and T-450, Dexter uses the same base and frame.

Mike,

I would assume that washer frames are engineered to accomodate the maximum load weight and to withstand the maximum G forces exerted upon the machine's main bearings and shaft. The higher the load weight and G force, the more substantial the frame components must be as a general rule. For example, my 80 lb Huebsch washers have A frames made of 10" channel iron.

[pressandclean]

My point is that they increased the RPM w/o changing the frame. If originally they were engineered for 100 rpm, and now they spin at 200 rpm, did they have it overbuilt before or underbuilt now? I think for anyone buying Express machines, that would be something to consider, carefully.

[Adamski]

Mike,

Maybe the frame was over-sized on the 100 RPM washers. Steel was a lot cheaper back when that model was designed. I'm sure Dexter re-engineered the washer when they went to 200 RPM. You bring up an interesting point though.

Here's another way to look at these high g washers. They start extracting at a low rpm when the load is wet and heavy. By the time they get up to that really high rpm, most of the water is out of the load so it's a lot lighter. The machine is spinning really fast but it's not a really heavy load at that point.

[BCW]

My point is that they increased the RPM w/o changing the frame. If originally they were engineered for 100 rpm, and now they spin at 200 rpm, did they have it overbuilt before or underbuilt now? I think for anyone buying Express machines, that would be something to consider, carefully.

Well, I read something about how during Dexter R&D they spin 50% out of balance loads for many hours. That says alot for the bearings. The frames are built like tanks. I have always been very impressed with Dexter engineering quality, as far as frame construction, and cabinet. Very solid construction. I feel the same way about Huebsch eng. Both excellent builds.

Tom

[Adamski]

Tom,

I agree, both Dexter and Huebsch have good designs. Interestingly though, both are different from each other. The Huebsch trunnion (bearing & seal housing) is supported by a large A frame structure that is welded to the framing around the base of the washer. As I recall, the Dexter trunnion is supported by radial arms that are bolted to a heavy steel ring that is attached to the circumference at the rear of the outer tub. It would appear, therefore, that Dexter wants the trunnion to move with minor outer tub movement while Huebsch wants the trunnion stabilized from any outer tub movement. These are 2 opposing design goals that each company chose.

[pressandclean]

Larry, I don't see why you think there can be movement. Both frames, although designed differently, appear stabilized.

[BCW]

Larry, I don't see why you think there can be movement. Both frames, although designed differently, appear stabilized.

Just throw in a plastic bed sheet sometime and hit high extract. You will see lot's of movement. Be ready to hit the red stop button!

Tom

[Adamski]

Larry, I don't see why you think there can be movement. Both frames, although designed differently, appear stabilized.

Mike,

Maybe Dexter has changed the frame design in recent years. I haven't bought a new Dexter in at least 15 years. Take a look at your Dexters and see if the trunnion is supported by the outer tub or if it's supported by the washer's base frame which is bolted down to the mounting base or concrete slab. If it's supported by the outer tub and that outer tub can move a little bit, then the trunnion will move a little bit too.

I don't think it's a question of movement so much as it's a question of which mounting theory provides a longer bearing/shaft/seal life. I don't have an answer or oppinion about that ... yet.

[pressandclean]

It is supported by the outer tub. I'm sure it will have some movement in it. However, I guess I don't understand why you think it would have more movement than the A-frame design. Or, why you think it was designed to have more movement?

[Adamski]

It is supported by the outer tub. I'm sure it will have some movement in it. However, I guess I don't understand why you think it would have more movement than the A-frame design. Or, why you think it was designed to have more movement?

Mike,

Okay, at least what I remember about Dexters is still true today. I hate talking about something that is no longer true so I'm glad you cleared that up for me. The trunnion is still supported by the perimeter of the outer tub. Now, to answer your question, I would think that a trunnion supported by something in the upper half of the cabinet would have more movement than a trunnion supported by the bottom frame of the cabinet. I think this would be especially true when you consider that the outer tub is dealing with all those centrifugal and out of balance forces whereas the bottom frame of the cabinet is solidly bolted to a steel base or concrete slab.

Here's how I see the out of balance forces being handled by each manufacturer:

Dexter: Basket becomes out of balance ... out of balance forces transer to shaft and then to bearings and then to trunnion and then to the rear circumference of outer tub and then to frame supporting outer tub and then to base frame and then to mounting bolts and base.

Huebsch: Basket becomes out of balance ... out of balance forces transfer to shaft and then to bearings and then to trunnion and then to A frame and then to base frame and then to mounting bolts and base.

Which system is better? I don't know.

[pressandclean]

The bottom two radial arms, combined with the channel coming up from the base create almost the same "A frame." But, they do connect to the outer tub, at the bottom.

[Adamski]

The bottom two radial arms, combined with the channel coming up from the base create almost the same "A frame." But, they do connect to the outer tub, at the bottom.

Mike,

See, I don't remember a channel coming up from the base on the T300s that I had. I wonder if that piece is only on the larger washers or if it's something that's been added more recently to all the Dexter washers.

It would be nice if someone from Dexter could explain to us, in layman's terms, why it is advantagous to tie the trunnion to the outer tub circumference. Also, maybe someone familiar with Wascomats could chime in and tell us how the trunnion is supported on those washers.

[superwash05]

To all Senior member;

I brought a laundromat a few months ago, I need some advices. Does any one have a Dexter WCN washer program guide, it has 2 dip switches with 6 switches on each side?

Please help me?

many thanks,
Superwash05