Water evaporation allowance

[CanCanCase]

Paid my water bill today, and it got me thinking (dangerous.) I flipped through the CLA PowerPoint about an evaporation allowance, and a 5% rebate doesn't seem like enough... Sure, 5% is a good guess at how much evaporates, but if im being charged for each cubic foot of water, then doubling it to include the sewage (I'm effectively paying for each cf of water to come and go) shouldn't I be calculating how much water leaves a washer in clothes, and then leaves the store?

A comparable is a local beer brewery who convinced that water utility that their employees only accounted for 10% of their water usage by flushing the toilet. The other 90% left the facility as an ingredient in their beer... In bottles and kegs.

I guess I'll have to go do a few loads tomorrow weighing as i go... What am i missing?

- Case

[Howard]

The actual amount of water left in clothing is very small, and getting smaller with high extract washers. Look at it this way (rough numbers): Assume a double load washer uses about 35 gallons of water. When the clothing come out how much more do they weigh than when they went in, let's assume 50% (YMMV). Thus, they have about 10 pounds of water which is just over one gallon, or roughly three percent of the water you used.

[alesser738]

San Francisco automatically gives me a 10% water allowance. If they bill you 100 gallons of water purchased. They bill you 90 gallons for the sewer charge.
Another location gives me no allowance. I think it all depends on the particular company. thanks Adam

[n175h]

I need to expand this question a bit farther.

Does anyone know if anybody has challenged a sewer charge evaporation allowance in court and won? I think a few have negotiated privately and received some relief, but I'm looking for a court case.

Our city is preparing to change its water/sewer rates and charge 100% for every gallon used as if it had gone down the sewer. This will charge all the irrigators for sewage for watering their yards. For several 100 ratepayers this could amount to over $500 per month each. This has never been done before. This will become a charge with no services rendered.

I just wondered if a court would deem this an "unconstitutional taking".

[CanCanCase]

I need to expand this question a bit farther.

Does anyone know if anybody has challenged a sewer charge evaporation allowance in court and won? I think a few have negotiated privately and received some relief, but I'm looking for a court case.

Our city is preparing to change its water/sewer rates and charge 100% for every gallon used as if it had gone down the sewer. This will charge all the irrigators for sewage for watering their yards. For several 100 ratepayers this could amount to over $500 per month each. This has never been done before. This will become a charge with no services rendered.

I just wondered if a court would deem this an "unconstitutional taking".

I don't know about court cases, but the rate will vary widely depending where you're located and the size/makeup of your store. I'm sure Chad would be thrilled with a $500 sewer charge. That's actually about in line with what I pay... $325 for the water to go in via the meter, and roughly double that: $643 to go out the drainpipe with no meter or measuring.

The neighboring city (where my store #2 is located) charges a flat rate for the first 500 cf of water usage, then x amount per 100 cf thereafter... It amounts to about 40% of my metered water being charged as sewer. So on one hand, I have a good deal for one store, but I pay 200% of the water rate for sewer in the other store. The odd part is that it's the same water board for both cities... They just collect whatever each city deems appropriate.

- Case

[chad]

I don't know about court cases, but the rate will vary widely depending where you're located and the size/makeup of your store. I'm sure Chad would be thrilled with a $500 sewer charge. That's actually about in line with what I pay... $325 for the water to go in via the meter, and roughly double that: $643 to go out the drainpipe with no meter or measuring.

The neighboring city (where my store #2 is located) charges a flat rate for the first 500 cf of water usage, then x amount per 100 cf thereafter... It amounts to about 40% of my metered water being charged as sewer. So on one hand, I have a good deal for one store, but I pay 200% of the water rate for sewer in the other store. The odd part is that it's the same water board for both cities... They just collect whatever each city deems appropriate.

- Case

I am looking into now, trying to see if i can get some relief. Right now it stands at 10% already.

[Howard]

A sewer district is not a private company, its a government agency and can do just about anything it wants. You can sue, but you will likely loose, and probably end up with lots of building inspections and other visits from all agencies in the municipality to get back at you.

[Adamski]

Chad,

If you're paying for all the water your main meter registers and then you're paying for the disposal of 90% of that water down the sewer; you're getting a pretty nice dryer evaporation allowance right now. I assume that if you're watering the grounds or using swamp coolers; that water would come through a separate, smaller meter and you wouldn't pay any sewage charges for the water registering on that smaller meter. If this is the way you're being billed; it's very fair and you should not look for additional credits.

Generally, municipalities do not meter sewage flow because that water is extremely contaminated and would be difficult to meter at every residential, commercial and industrial site. Instead, they meter the clean water being used and often assume that 100% of that water is also going down the sewer. Everyone could make an argument that some water does not go down the sewer. A resident could argue that some of his water evaporates during clothes drying, cooking, even when taking a bath. Also, residents often water the lawn and pay sewage fees for that water even though it never enters a sewer.

Water and/or sewer charges are often based on a formula that takes into account recent new plant expenditures, operating costs and current flow rates. If the flow rates were to suddenly decrease due to the closing of a large volume user; the rates charged to the remaining users may have to increase substantially as the plant expenditure and operating costs will not likely decrease very much with the loss of the large user.

For example: Muskegon's largest water/sewer user was a paper plant. One day, that plant requested a reduced water/sewer rate citing off-shore competition and other hardships. I wrote a Letter to the Editor of the Muskegon Chronicle commenting about how that plant was asking for a reduction in its water/sewer rates but was not and had not invested in new equipment or plant infrastructure. I ended my letter by predicting the plant's demise within 2 years.

The plant manager responded to my letter with his own Letter to the Editor. He denied that the plant would close. His comments centered around all the people the plant employs and the good wages they pay and how they have this "off-shore competition" problem. Well, you guys know how I like to write so I wrote a response Letter to the Editor. I told him, "Don't tell me about off-shore competition. I compete everyday with the home laundry market where 90% of personal laundry is done. When 90% of businesses and schools produce their own paper in their back room; then you'll know what real competition is." He did not respond.

Well, it's been about 3 years since our letter sparring and that plant has been closed since 2009. Oh they said they "might reopen in about 6 months" but now the equipment is being auctioned off so that's not going to happen. Now, the Muskegon water and sewer utilities are faced with trying to reduce costs and push through some fairly large water/sewer rate increases to offset the lost revenue due to the reduced flow. This is one time when I wish my earlier prediction had not come true.

[CanCanCase]

Larry- you're a man of few words. What's this "you know how I like to write" business??? ;-)

- Case

[BN82]

If you were to take an evaporation allowance issue before a judge, you would need several months of meter data both on your incoming line and outgoing line. Incoming line isn't difficult - it's what your water authority already measures. Outgoing line is more difficult - I believe the device you need is called an effluent meter, and there are very rigorous guidelines for installation, maintenance, etc., making it almost impossible for all but the largest companies to use them.

[timberland]

We own our own water well, however have a sewer dump. The water dept meters on OUR well pipes then we pay exactly 100% of these gallons as sewer dump. I have questioned this logic, and short of being thrown out of the village hall...I finally gave up. Not worth what I spend in two days for lunch what I would get back off my bill. I don't understand is how we are required by law to have a certified scale for drop off laundry, yet the village can charge for sewer dump without a certified meter.