Solution to TSA Searches

[Howard]

http://i52.tinypic.com/3486oaq.jpg

[MrMachine]

Howard,

I recently rode Amtrak's Acela Express from NYC to Washington DC.

No body searches and a very comfortable ride. Nice big seats, great dining car, plug ins for computers, etc. If you go with a couple of people you can get 4 seats around a table, play cards, hang out, etc. Very nice!
They did bring some police dogs for a walk through before the train left the station, but that was about it.

I think Amtrak is great for short to medium distance trips.

[fschmidt99]

For those of you that don't fly often:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro-

Quote:

"“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

TSA already has roving VANs that contain the scanners that they use for Road side checkpoints in the Southwest US. No opt-outs there.

[Howard]

....
TSA already has roving VANs that contain the scanners that they use for Road side checkpoints in the Southwest US. No opt-outs there.


Road side checkpoints of what? You don't have to consent to any search when out in public without someone having probably cause.

[fschmidt99]

Road side checkpoints of what? You don't have to consent to any search when out in public without someone having probably cause.

Howard,

The US border patrol is authorized to conduct checkpoints up to 100 miles of any US border. They do not need probable cause to stop you. I see from your profile that you are located in NJ. Here is a webpage that has been trying to stop that mobile checkpoint in Hartford, VT since 2005.

http://stopthecheckpoint.blogspot.com/

If stopped, you MUST produce papers (i.e passport / drivers License) that support your right to be in the US. The Dept. of Homeland Security has been providing vans to search people at these checkpoints.

These are mobile checkpoints similar to the DUI checkpoints that you may have seen in your local township. Once your car is within view of the Border Patrol, you may NOT exit the line (i.e. U-Turn / exit other road) If selected for additional screening, you do not have an option to "opt-out" of the secondary security check. As I understand it, these checkpoint have the same Legal authority as if you were entering the country at a border checkpoint.

These checkpoints also have been used extensively in Southern Florida and Southern California.

[kees]

This whole search thing is freaking me out. I'm supposed to be flying today and don't want anyone getting too "personal" with me.

Suzy
:eek:

[Jefflange]

We need more check points in this country. But they should be at least 100 miles from any of my laundromats.

[Howard]

Howard,

The US border patrol is authorized to conduct checkpoints up to 100 miles of any US border. They do not need probable cause to stop you. I see from your profile that you are located in NJ. Here is a webpage that has been trying to stop that mobile checkpoint in Hartford, VT since 2005.

http://stopthecheckpoint.blogspot.com/

If stopped, you MUST produce papers (i.e passport / drivers License) that support your right to be in the US. The Dept. of Homeland Security has been providing vans to search people at these checkpoints.

These are mobile checkpoints similar to the DUI checkpoints that you may have seen in your local township. Once your car is within view of the Border Patrol, you may NOT exit the line (i.e. U-Turn / exit other road) If selected for additional screening, you do not have an option to "opt-out" of the secondary security check. As I understand it, these checkpoint have the same Legal authority as if you were entering the country at a border checkpoint.

These checkpoints also have been used extensively in Southern Florida and Southern California.


Wow I would love to make a test case out of that. Sees odd, since there is no law that you have to carry any papers proving you are a citizen. We are one of few countries that don't require such. Just how would any American citizen prove anything to these guys. Do you carry a passport with you -- I certainly don't. All I carry is a drivers license which does not prove citizenship. Seems like such a stop violates the constitution, if people don't fight for their rights they lose them. This should stop.

[kees]

I flew today to from JFK in NY to Austin, TX. I had to remove my boots, jacket, gloves and hand over my purse. I also had to go through a metal detector. No full body scanner or pat down. Though if I had to pick one of the choices, I'd select the pat down. What about you?

Suzy
:cool:

[Adamski]

Suzy,

Ahhh ... so you're a touchy - feely kind of person.;)

[kees]

Suzy,

Ahhh ... so you're a touchy - feely kind of person.;)

Absolutely...I'm a softy at heart!

Suzy
:p

[surfflite]

Howard,

The US border patrol is authorized to conduct checkpoints up to 100 miles of any US border. They do not need probable cause to stop you. I see from your profile that you are located in NJ. Here is a webpage that has been trying to stop that mobile checkpoint in Hartford, VT since 2005.

http://stopthecheckpoint.blogspot.com/

If stopped, you MUST produce papers (i.e passport / drivers License) that support your right to be in the US. The Dept. of Homeland Security has been providing vans to search people at these checkpoints.

These are mobile checkpoints similar to the DUI checkpoints that you may have seen in your local township. Once your car is within view of the Border Patrol, you may NOT exit the line (i.e. U-Turn / exit other road) If selected for additional screening, you do not have an option to "opt-out" of the secondary security check. As I understand it, these checkpoint have the same Legal authority as if you were entering the country at a border checkpoint.

These checkpoints also have been used extensively in Southern Florida and Southern California.

There are tons of youtube videos proving this to be wrong. Border patrol cannot detain you inside the border. Sure they will try to convince you they can but in all the videos, as long as you don't act a fool, they let the person go. Even if it took calling the supervisor and holding up traffic. As long as you do not submit to "pulling over to secondary search" they cannot detain you without cause. Some of the videos are very entertaining and really show how the border patrol intimidates. Any timid citizen would cave in and let them trample their rights, but if you stand strong they cave.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=border+patrol+checkpoint&aq=0

Wow I would love to make a test case out of that. Sees odd, since there is no law that you have to carry any papers proving you are a citizen. We are one of few countries that don't require such. Just how would any American citizen prove anything to these guys. Do you carry a passport with you -- I certainly don't. All I carry is a drivers license which does not prove citizenship. Seems like such a stop violates the constitution, if people don't fight for their rights they lose them. This should stop.

[fschmidt99]

Kerry,

I will refer you to this ACLU Fact Sheet link:

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-free-zone

Per the ACLU the courts so far have permitted these stops.

However to quote the ACLU:
"... places far removed from the actual border – agents are stopping, interrogating, and searching Americans on an everyday basis with absolutely no suspicion of wrongdoing."

I agree with you that no one should "act the fool" at one of these stops. There are people that did not have reasonable ID and were detained for hours at one of these checkpoints. In addition, people have been arrested at these stops.

I have personally met people that have spent 4+ hours sitting in a room waiting for customs to release them.

-----------

To answer Howard's question: I have a US Passport and a Passport card. I carry my Passport Card in my wallet at all times.

I have traveled almost every week for the last 7 years. I have learned that the Dept of Homeland Security (which includes the Border Patrol) is an out-of-control goverment agency.

-----------

To answer Suzy's question: I opt-out of the Full Body Scanner machine everytime I fly. The reason is my safety.

These machines do not have a historical radiation detector. This device monitors the machine to determine if the machine is dispensing the correct amount of radiation. My understanding is that medical radiation equipment contains these detectors and that they are sent to a lab on a regular schedule. This is how Cedars-Sinai Medical Center was able to determine that over 200 people had received excessive radiation during their cat-scans. Why doesn't the TSA put the same protections in place?

No one in the laundry business has every had a hose burst or a dryer fire? Is it possible that maybe one of these TSA machines could malfunction?

[DaveLevenson]

I live in northern NJ and have family in DC. I have taken Amtrak to DC and back every month or two for years. I was AMAZED by the recent increase in Amtrak fares! Perhaps it was a special for the holidays, but I attempted to buy two round-trip fares for travel on the day before Thanksgiving, returning the Saturday after. The fare, with a senior-citizen discount, came to almost $500 for the two of us. That was the Regional service, not the extra-cost Acela high-speed service (which would have saved all of about 20 minutes on a three-hour trip).

After considering the alternatives (for a minute or two) we drove to DC. We used about 15 gallons of regular gas, and the door-to-door time was less than taking the train, going south, a little longer going north due to congestion on I-95.

[MrMachine]

I live in northern NJ and have family in DC. I have taken Amtrak to DC and back every month or two for years. I was AMAZED by the recent increase in Amtrak fares! Perhaps it was a special for the holidays, but I attempted to buy two round-trip fares for travel on the day before Thanksgiving, returning the Saturday after. The fare, with a senior-citizen discount, came to almost $500 for the two of us. That was the Regional service, not the extra-cost Acela high-speed service (which would have saved all of about 20 minutes on a three-hour trip).

After considering the alternatives (for a minute or two) we drove to DC. We used about 15 gallons of regular gas, and the door-to-door time was less than taking the train, going south, a little longer going north due to congestion on I-95.

Yes Dave.....That's the only drawback to Amtrak...the price. Do they offer specials, say off peak season? I paid about $200 r/t for the Acela(without the chairside waiter service), but I thought it was worth it. Took the LIRR from Long Island to Penn Station, Bada Bing Bada Boom, next thing I know, I'm in Washington DC.

[STOUT]

When I was in Great Brittan we rode the trains all over. It was very convenient. I wish we had as many connections here in the States.
We use our airports like they use the trains.
In my area there are no train service. I hope that Warren Buffet will expand his portfolio and include commuter services.

[fschmidt99]

I know this group does not fly much. So airport screening is not high on your priority list like it is on mine.

Just wanted you to know that the 4th amemdement does not exist in Atlanta any longer -- Thanks to the Dept of Homeland Security.


Coming to an Interstate near you soon ---

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/25198651/detail.html

[Howard]

My wife just sent me this photo, which seems like the perfect solution to balancing security needs versus privacy.

[Adamski]

Howard,

I hate to admit it but that idea is funny.

September 11, 2001, Logan Airport:
Kaboom ... kaboom ... kaboom ...