Is XYZ GOD?

[surfflite]

So why is it that when a distributor stops selling equipment in your state you cannot post such on here? They (CLA, PlanetGURU????) completely deleted a thread that talked about a SQ distributor leaving Arizona. It's bad enough that we can only post "happy news" about the distributors but are censured from posting anything not so happy. What a crock of ^%$&^!!


.................waiting patiently for a PM from whoever runs this site to explain to me why this crap happens.........I'm beginning to think this industry is a bit crooked. But that's just me. :)

[Adamski]

Kerry,

Well, I read your post and the others that followed it and I didn't really see anything especially defamatory or wrong there. Maybe you were just celebrating too much because ABC is gone.

[surfflite]

Hmmm. I'm sorry if I offended someone. I'm just tired of having to call a turd a rose all the time. Any other industry, a turd is just that. It's perplexing to me that this industry doesn't step up to the times. And bragging on a machine that sends out emails is not what I have in mind when I say "up to the times."

[Jefflange]

Maybe P*S spends mucho dinero on advertising in the Journal, so Journal wants to keep its customer happy.

[Super Clean]

I understand keeping advertisers happy, I also can see if someone is making defamatory remarks about a company. Posting that SWP is leaving the state is just news, I read the start of the thread but did not read the responses.

Censorship is all around but hey, when its a private site that someone runs, at the end of the day they make the final decisions.

[Bluestreak]

I hate it when that happens.

We all have chosen to come out and hang out here at CLA's house. We should realize that it's their party, they don't charge for it and they get to make the rules. However, when something like this happens, I ask myself.. Do I want to continue to expend my energy sharing opinions and maybe a little bit of wisdom with others in this industry in this environment?

In general, the censorship hasn't been too heavy handed lately, but then it hasn't been my posts being deleted either. If things get out of hand, I would imagine people would eventually vote with their feet.

[surfflite]

Advertisers? What about us, the mat owners. I'm pretty sure we are more important to the industry than an ad in some magazine. There wouldn't even be a magazine, or this website for that matter, without owners. Maybe they should start a rate your distributor thread. Then, if many, many people are always complaining about the same distributor, CLA can take some corrective action.

I've been through this crap before on a car forum. I took my car to a shop and they hacked up my custom car. I went online and posted pics and TRUE stories about what they did. Guess what? I was banned from the forum for "making defamatory remarks." So I just kept logging on with a new screen name and was banned maybe 10 times. I even got a couple of death threats against me and my family from a couple of fans of the shop. They listed my home address and everything. I sued the pants off that shop (this dragged out for 2 years), all the time I was shunned from the car community and car shows. But then I won my case in court and posted the results on the forum. For the next 6 months, nothing but apologies, even got one from the forum creator that had banned me multiple times. The garage ended up going bankrupt. What pissed me off most about the whole deal was I was totally honest and only posted the truth about what they did to my car. the shop owner would come on and call me a liar. I AM NOT A LIAR!! And I would not post BS half truths on any forum.

CLA needs to hear ALL input from us, good and bad, and they need to take action like they do with the State Laundry Tax issues. They need to rid this industry of the crooked used car salesman mentality types and get on with things. The industry needs to take a break from designing silly email sending washers and redirect some energy towards industry integrity. :)

[Brian_Wallace]

As most of you know, I am reluctant to weigh in on each and every issue brought forward on the forum, but I think that the comments made here since yesterday warrant a response. I also believe that the people who take the time and energy to post here deserve a public response rather than a private message.

At the risk of being repetitive, let's begin with an excerpt from a post I made in June of 2008:

= = “Censorship”
From the beginning, the CLA has established this forum as an “open,” but monitored, bulletin board. Any search of this board gives evidence that we have consistently allowed criticisms of the Coin Laundry Association, its advertisers and its member companies. We do exercise our right (and responsibility) as publisher to edit and delete posts that are deemed to be defamatory, offensive, profane, illegal, abusive and/or cross the line of libelous content.

Contrary to opinions expressed on the forum, the CLA is indeed responsible for potentially libelous content posted by users of the forum. As a publisher who exercises editorial control over the site, we may be liable for these statements made by others – therefore, we make an effort to edit or delete these statements. This is a fact that I have confirmed on a number of occasions with both our association counsel and our publisher’s liability insurance carrier. One of my major responsibilities as a steward of the organization is to protect the CLA from potential legal liabilities. In addition to the legal issues, these types of posts violate the forum’s guidelines and disclaimer agreed to by each registered user.

Distributors
There are two reasons that compel us to edit or delete posts that go beyond simple criticisms and cross the line into potentially libelous content and material that references legal action. The first is legal liability, which I addressed previously; the second is an issue of fairness. Those making these claims are anonymous and are under no obligation to prove or otherwise substantiate a claim. Those making the allegations may be real customers who have legitimate concerns or they may be: real customers who do not have legitimate gripes; a competitor posing as a customer; or a disgruntled employee posing as a customer; to name a few possibilities. Furthermore, one can ask what benefit is gained by the forum community by getting involved with a particular business dispute.

The CLA has always been available to assist members who have disputes or complaints with their distributors. While we do not hold any jurisdiction over how distributors or manufacturers do business, I have worked with many member store owners to reach resolution of disputes they may have had with vendors. We are fortunate to have a broad network of colleagues in the industry and this can help solve problems. Of course, we stop short of getting involved in litigation among members and have a policy against providing expert testimony in these cases.

For those implying that CLA makes decisions in this regard based on dollars received from distributors, dues and advertising revenue we derive from distributors combines to generate just 7% of CLA’s total revenues. Our staff and our Board are committed to making decisions in the best interests of the industry. = =

Back to the comments made here since yesterday, I should add that the distributor in question does not purchase advertising from us, thus debunking another conspiracy theory about how we make decisions. And no, I did not get a call from a distributor demanding that the post be deleted.

The original post and subsequent comments did not merely announce a change in a distributor's territory; news of distributors' gaining or losing either authorized sales territory and/or a particular manufacturer's line of equipment comes in to us on a regular basis. The comments posted included both a derogatory implication and heresay attributed to a private conversation held with another competing distributor from that market.

If and when a distributor and/or manufacturer officially announces a change in territory or representation, we will run the story on the website and in the magazine to inform the readers. Short of that, it's gossip at best and at worst it can be erroneous information that can damage the companies involved and potentially bring liability to the association as publisher. Again, it's an issue of both fairness to the companies involved and serving my fiduciary role with the association to mitigate potential liabilities.

To reiterate one of the points made in the excerpt above, CLA has absolutely no jurisdiction over how its members do business whether those members are store owners, distributors or manufacturers, nor do we have the right to take "corrective action". Over my nearly 19 years with the association, I have received complaints from time to time regarding all segments of the industry and have always done my best to help resolve individual disputes. You can just imagine the complaints I've received from laundry customers about store owners over the years! So, it is not just an issue of how distributors are treated. There is no question that we make a positive impact for all three membership categories by promoting best practices and educating the industry.

The reason I noted the date of my last post on the topic is to emphasize that it is on rare occasions that we feel compelled to delete a post. That is a credit to those of you who contribute to the board on a regular basis and keep your focus on sharing information that can help your colleagues become more successful. After all, that is the main purpose of an association like CLA.

All members of CLA are welcome to contact me directly to discuss a dispute, complaint, or concern about any industry vendor. If you are a member of CLA and one of your questions on the forum goes unanswered by your peers, you are always welcome to contact us directly for a personal response to your question.

Brian Wallace
President and CEO
Coin Laundry Association and CLA Insurance

Publisher of PlanetLaundry Magazine and PlanetLaundry.com

[Jefflange]

Oh no.................

[Adamski]

Brian,

Thanks for reminding all of us about the realities of running a public Bulletin Board forum such as this. You're right - CLA does not have carte blanche control over any private enterprise be it a laundromat, a distributorship or a manufacturer. Members are well-advised to contact CLA for individual help with specific issues. Beyond that, unproven allegations against others in the industry are inappropriate topics for this BB for the reasons you stated.

Anyone who has posted here for any length of time has had posts deleted. That includes me. When this happens, we must understand that there are real legal issues involved and nobody ... I'll say that again ... nobody wants to get sued.

I think that, by and large, discussions on this BB are well presented and depict a mature attitude. I look forward to each day's banter with anticipation and wonder. The information, the humor and the opinions presented here are priceless.

[BMWHD3060]

Brian,

Thanks for reminding all of us about the realities of running a public Bulletin Board forum such as this. You're right - CLA does not have carte blanche control over any private enterprise be it a laundromat, a distributorship or a manufacturer. Members are well-advised to contact CLA for individual help with specific issues. Beyond that, unproven allegations against others in the industry are inappropriate topics for this BB for the reasons you stated.

Anyone who has posted here for any length of time has had posts deleted. That includes me. When this happens, we must understand that there are real legal issues involved and nobody ... I'll say that again ... nobody wants to get sued.

I think that, by and large, discussions on this BB are well presented and depict a mature attitude. I look forward to each day's banter with anticipation and wonder. The information, the humor and the opinions presented here are priceless.


Adamski,
Well Said

[surfflite]

On that note. I'll just keep my future inquiries on this forum strictly in the "help, my equipment has "X" wrong with it" category. I've had, and will have plenty of those. I'll deal with the "Arizona thing" on a personal level. But thanks Brian for the reply.

Either I missed a very important post in my deleted thread or I'm not cut out for this. I merely posted what I thought was news for the good. It wasn't hearsay, it was from an hour and half phone conversation from a very reputable distributor. If someone posted something after that, I missed it.

[mellofelow]

Geezzz... regardless, thanks Brian for the reply. I read your post a couple of times and for the life of me, I cannot relate any of the points to the original post from Kerry. Sorry... no comprende.

I made a post in that thread as well and if I remembered it correctly, it was just news, an FYI sorta speak. Even if there was a damaging post that came after me, why abolish the whole thread? And not the defamatory post?

Something is fishy for sure. Quite frankly, it doesn't really surprise me... hell, nothing surprises me anymore. The industry is so wacky I can't wait to get out of it.

[BCW]

and now a word from our sponsors......

[ldm]

And now the summary....

Surfflite is pissed
Adamski Saw no problem
Surfflite is still pissed
Jefflang Takes a shot....and misses ?
Superclean is diplomatic
Bluestreak hates it when that happens
Surfflite continues to be pissed
Brian Wallace jumps in with a lengthy requested da kine
Jefflang channels Mr. Bill
Adamski Throws a bucket of common sense on the fire
BMWHD3060 Agrees with Adamski
Surfflite, well, is chronically pissed
Mellowfello wants censorship applied surgically, but also wants out
BCW wants another word from the sponsor
LDM sumarizes and expects Surfflite is still fuming

[Xiong]

And now the summary....

Surfflite is pissed
Adamski Saw no problem
Surfflite is still pissed
Jefflang Takes a shot....and misses ?
Superclean is diplomatic
Bluestreak hates it when that happens
Surfflite continues to be pissed
Brian Wallace jumps in with a lengthy requested da kine
Jefflang channels Mr. Bill
Adamski Throws a bucket of common sense on the fire
BMWHD3060 Agrees with Adamski
Surfflite, well, is chronically pissed
Mellowfello wants censorship applied surgically, but also wants out
BCW wants another word from the sponsor
LDM sumarizes and expects Surfflite is still fuming


thank you for the summary :D

everyone deserves to know the good and bad of this industry, there is no need to hide the uglyness of the industry, let's just be honest about it. there is no industry without the laundromat owners, thus the distributors/agents would have no business at all. most industries start with people in the middle to either protect the producers or as barrier to entry into the industry--that works well in the previous centuries, but getting ugly in this and future centuries!

[surfflite]

I'm not pissed ldm. Didn't you see my smiley emoticon? :) More like frustrated. The longer I'm in this business the worst it smells to me. Enough so that, I too, am in motion to get out. I don't play well with unethical companies or people and this industry is loaded with them. It's unfortunate because it could be so much better.

Brian's reply didn't really address anything related to my issue, IMO. If a mat owner has a bad dealing (or multiple bad dealings) with a distributor, guess what it really happens. Not letting us post a real life experience on here is just wrong. I don't make shit up and I would not post "hearsay." I welcome Brain to visit my mat sometime and see for himself who he's sticking up for. He would leave embarrassed. Truth negates defamatory or libel issues and I feel very comfortable posting what I do as they are neither defamatory nor libel. Anybody can sue you for libel or defamation if they think you damaged their reputation, but if you can prove what you say is true, you have nothing to worry about. Like I mentioned earlier, I've been there, done that and was awarded a hefty sum for merely telling the truth. It was so easy in court for me because all I had to do was present the facts, present proper documentation and tell the truth. The defendant, on the other hand was sweating it out the whole trial because he had no truth to offer.

I have plenty of ammunition (not real ammunition just a metaphor for you non Arizonan's) if I ever needed to take on PWS, but to be honest, they are gone now, I have no need to buy anything from them ever again and these last sentences are the last bit of energy I'll be spending talking about them. Think about it, companies of this size don't just pack up and leave a town of 4.5 million people if they are doing the right thing.

The End!!

[Jefflange]

PWS always have great prices on parts.

[Super Clean]

Not being familiar with American Law but knowing you guys (Americans in general) seem to want to sue for anything and everything, it's the American Way after all, I don't see how someones independent comment could hold CLA Liable. Somewhere there should say CLA resumes no responsibility and all comments are those of the poster.

We see this on TV all the time when a certain channel has an infomercial or a program that has bought time.

I agree that forums like this is where we post our bad and good dealings with Distributors and such.

If I come on here and say I hate Maytag Washers (an example), list all my problems I've had and say I'd never buy another machine from them again, it seems to be fine. So why can't we say the same thing about a distributor. After all, they are certainly not god, not my god anywase.

[merlin3]

And now the summary....

Surfflite is pissed
Adamski Saw no problem
Surfflite is still pissed
Jefflang Takes a shot....and misses ?
Superclean is diplomatic
Bluestreak hates it when that happens
Surfflite continues to be pissed
Brian Wallace jumps in with a lengthy requested da kine
Jefflang channels Mr. Bill
Adamski Throws a bucket of common sense on the fire
BMWHD3060 Agrees with Adamski
Surfflite, well, is chronically pissed
Mellowfello wants censorship applied surgically, but also wants out
BCW wants another word from the sponsor
LDM sumarizes and expects Surfflite is still fuming




Rats. Another list I didn't make. :mad:








:D

[BMWHD3060]

Rats. Another list I didn't make. :mad:








:D

I'm sure you will get another try.

[ldm]

...SUMMARY UPDATE:
Xiong appreciates the update and wants the industry curtains pulled back in a civil manner
Surfflite's smiley emoticon even looks pissed...just glad I am not in his sights : )
Jefflang proclaims perfect parts pricing revealing a sunny side of pws.
Superclean thinks disclaimers should stop lawsuits...not in the USA partner. And he may or may not hate Maytag washers (middleroader)
Merlin 3 makes the list
BCWHD3060 properly predicts Merlin 3's list opportunity
LDM suspects Surfflite is slowly calming down...as is his smiley emoticon.

[Adamski]

You guys crack me up!