Lots of Water Under the Wall?

[DaveLevenson]

I got a phone call from my attendant on Thursday evening. She was very excited and told me lots of water was under the wall. I was in Riverhead, NY (that's over 100 miles from my store) when I got the call. I tried several ways of asking her what she meant. Was the water coming from an inside wall? No. Was it coming through the wall? No. Was water outside the building? Yes. Is the floor wet? No; the water is outside. Is it coming inside? No, it is staying outside. Ah... an underground leak!

I called my landlord, who lives about five minutes from the store. He called the township department of public works. They sent someone who shut the curb-stop valve. Water then stopped coming up out of the ground next to my wall. The DPW guy smiled and said it was not HIS problem, and left.

My attendant, at my direction, put a sign in the front door: "No water tonight; DRY ONLY". (Two customers started washers anyway. Perhaps they wanted dry-cleaning?)

First thing Friday morning, I met the landlord, the DPW, and a plumber who brought two day-laborers. They started digging. By noon, they had dug a hole about four feet deep, pumped it out, and exposed the curb-stop and the copper line that went under the building. Then the DPW guy opened the curb stop far enough that we could all see water running out from under the foundation.

A temporary fix was made -- a PVC line lying on the ground now runs from the aforementioned hole to the back of the building, through a hole in the wall, and through my back room to the utility room, and connects to the water meter. The store was open and offering washing by about 3:00pm on Friday.

The landlord has told the plumber to run a new line through the wall below grade, up into the drop-ceiling, and to the rear of the building without going through or under the slab. If the township won't allow that, then he'll bury a new line alongside the building to the back and go through there.

[Howard]

Wow I can't believe the number of water related problems you have suffered through.

[jh]

Might as well quietly use that "free underground water".

[DaveLevenson]

Originally Posted by Howard

Wow I can't believe the number of water related problems you have suffered through.

With the exception of Hurricane Irene, my water problems have all been related to the age of the building. The plumber told us on Friday that they never embed water or electric lines in a concrete slab today. But that was standard practice when this building was built, circa 1953.

Buying an existing mat, as opposed to building a new one, is nearly everybody's advice in this industry. And I still believe that it is sound advice. But every now and then, I find myself wishing I'd found a newER store.

On the other hand, I also have been fortunate to have a very friendly and cooperative landlord. He is shouldering the entire cost of this repair. It's only costing me some lost business while the water is off for the repairs.

[Howard]

I don't think building a new mat would get away from that problem - unless of course you are talking about building an entire building as any building you were to find in that town probably has similar construction even if it were not a mat. That is why I was lucky to have a basement in my store - everything was exposed and easy to get at for maintenance purposes.

[ldm]

Every once in a while in some old area's, I have found the electrical ground dependent on the below grade copper water lines. You may want to check to be sure you have a working ground for your electrical service. Les

[Howard]

Originally Posted by ldm

Every once in a while in some old area's, I have found the electrical ground dependent on the below grade copper water lines. You may want to check to be sure you have a working ground for your electrical service. Les

Very true, I found that with a home I owned in Delaware. I was doing come work on the water piping and had shut the water off and cut into the main supply line - boy did the sparks ever start flying.

[DaveLevenson]

The temporary water service got us through the weekend! Washer fill times were a minute or two longer than normal when several washers were filling at the same time. The water meter ran slowly, as the total flow was reduced. (We have two 5/8" connections to the street, normally tee'd into a 1 1/4" line from the curb to the meter. The temporary service used only one of the 5/8" connections.)

This morning (Monday), the plumber showed up with a permit from the township, and materials to complete the "permanent" fix. We now have two 5/8" copper lines from the curb into the building, two valves, a tee, and a 1 1/4" line above the drop ceiling to the back room. The township inspector signed off on the underground work and the hole was back-filled. Tomorrow the line in the ceiling will be extended to the water meter in the back room, the final inspection is scheduled, and we should be back to normal.

There remains one water line embedded in the slab: the cold supply line to the bulkhead. (The hot supply line used to be in the slab, but it was moved to the ceiling back when I was in the process of buying the business. Thanks again, Howard!) The plumber will be replacing that line with a new one in the ceiling as part of this job, even though the embedded pipe isn't leaking yet.

[ldm]

Guessing they have to insulate those lines in your neck of the woods. If they do it right, no freezing near or above ground level and no condensation drips. Les

[DaveLevenson]

The work was finished last Tuesday, but I have been unable to log in to this site until today.

The water lines go through the foundation wall about four feet below grade to avoid freezing. They come up through the floor just inside the wall, through two valves and a tee, and from that point they go up into the ceiling and thence to the utility room. All of the stuff above the floor is insulated, so I think we are safe from condensation and from freezing.

The town inspector signed off on it, so it must be okay! (At least it's legal.)