Larry's worst nightmare!!!

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by JamesD

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMachine
And I know you card guys are loathe to admit this, but many customers already would rather use a coin store over a card store, if all other factors are equal....
If by "all other factors" you mean the market we do business in, then yes. In my market, however, the vast majority of customers prefer the card. It's what I've taught people to believe in. I've shown people the features of a card system, explained each feature's advantages to the customer, and led them to conclusions about how this benefits them.
Case, I must say, your market and the way you have cornered it, is different. You did a great job in transforming your market to your needs. Especially since you are still relatively new. You took an overall understanding of business from past experience, and combined it with excellent marketing and plain old good decision making during construction, etc. Still, I wonder if you might be doing a little better if your stores were Dollar coin and I'm dead serious about that.
I dare say that many if not most Mat owners, especially newbies, do not have your grasp of the business, therefore cards can be a minefield for them, especially if they are not tech savvy like you are.

__________________________________________________ _______________________

Mr. Machine,

I am neither new at this business, or particularly tech savvy. However, my customers overwhelmingly prefer to use the card system and not a single customer has ever left my store due to it to my knowledge. Well, you wouldn't know if you lost people to your coin store competitors, would you? But your coin store competitors would know. I have not spent an inordinate amount of time explaining the system to my customers either.

My competitors are mostly coin stores and I am the high price-leader and I own an an outsized share of the market. As you infer, I highly doubt that my revenue would increase if I were DCO. I can propose that you would do better with a card system - pure conjecture, my friend. Sorry James, but it's not conjecture. It's a fact that I get customers from Card stores all the time who don't like the cards. In fact, I even advertise that they don't have to buy a card.

Please don't assume anything about something which you have little or no knowledge. I don't care if you or Larry or anyone else never touches a card system, but please stop stating as facts information which is simply your opinion with no real basis in reality. Again, the facts are, that given a choice, more customers will choose coins over cards. That's one of the main reasons that card stores only comprise little more than 5% of the Laundromat market. If card systems were so great they would have exploded onto this market, but even with all the heavy promotion by the card companies, that has not yet happened. Card systems have been around for quite some time now, but yet they haven't taken off.
And by the way, I have a great deal of knowledge in this business running multiple stores for over 35 years.

Larry has done an excellent job with his customers and he is very pleased with his "system" and I prefer mine. Let's leave it at that.

James,

Just look at the title of your thread..."Larry's Worst Nightmare". With 3 exclamation points.
It's a very angry thread, obviously meant to attack Larry because he supports the Dollar coin and you don't. Now you are defending him. This is not a thread that's posted in good faith. It's basically schoolyard bullying and I will stick up for Larry and the Dollar coin whenever I see something like this.

[ldm]

These Dollar / Quarter / Card threads are always interesting and passionate, but somewhat similar. I just want to know...Can 4 quarters beat up a 1 dollar coin. I am sure the Dollar / Quarters would gang up on a card. Les

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by ldm

These Dollar / Quarter / Card threads are always interesting and passionate, but somewhat similar. I just want to know...Can 4 quarters beat up a 1 dollar coin. I am sure the Dollar / Quarters would gang up on a card. Les

I see your point Les.
I guess some of us are a little too passionate about our positions, myself included.
It is getting a little old now, I agree.

Tough thread, lol...

[JamesD]

Where do I start? I like Larry and appreciate his opinion, even though I disagree at times. His thoughts are always well thought out.

Mr. Machine, I don't care what you think, but this was definitely not meant as an attack on Larry. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to what will be a pain in the butt for dollar coin users. I am sure that Larry gets sarcasm. You obviously don't.

Let's see whatever nonsense that you have been spewing:

How do you know that people don't leave your store because they don't want to use coins? I get people like that everyday who are tired of handling coins and dumping them into machines. With a card you only need one and it is pain-free to swipe it. No muss, no fuss.

The fact that there are only a small percentage of stores in the US that are card does not mean that the rate of penetration isn't increasing. Most stores that I see in the NY Metro area that are either being built or rehabbed in the last several years have been a card stores.

If I own 80% of my market, how can you show me that I would do better with a DCO store at the same location unless you could point out a sizeable group of people that avoid my store because of my card system. Conjecture as I mentioned before.

If Larry feels like I attacked him for that I am sorry - to him. He's a big boy so let him defend himself. Did he ask you to defend him? I think not.

[Howard]

I did not see Jame's comment as an attack on Larry, I thought it was just a funny way to discuss the topic. Further, it won't be a problem as even though they will wisely stop making these coins they have stated that they have 10 years worth of them in inventory. What company would keep manufacturing a product if they had 10 years of inventory in a warehouse?

As for cards vs coins, don't get me started. As James states in many areas almost all stores are card stores and most new stores are built that way. They may not be the case in central America (not to be confused with Central America), but it is in NY and northern NJ. My immediate market was four stores, three of which were cards.

If you surveyed customers I think you would find that for most (not all but most) the payment method the store uses would be fairly low on their reason why they use a given store.

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by JamesD

Where do I start? I like Larry and appreciate his opinion, even though I disagree at times. His thoughts are always well thought out.

Mr. Machine, I don't care what you think, but this was definitely not meant as an attack on Larry. James, if you don't care what I think, then why do you keep responding? Just stop responding if you don't care what I think. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to what will be a pain in the butt for dollar coin users. Yeah right. No one would create a disparaging thread like this unless they meant mal-intent. I am sure that Larry gets sarcasm. You obviously don't. No James, I don't because it's an angry teasing sarcasm which has no place on a forum like this.

Let's see whatever nonsense that you have been spewing:

How do you know that people don't leave your store because they don't want to use coins? I get people like that everyday who are tired of handling coins and dumping them into machines. With a card you only need one and it is pain-free to swipe it. No muss, no fuss.

The fact that there are only a small percentage of stores in the US that are card does not mean that the rate of penetration isn't increasing. Most stores that I see in the NY Metro area that are either being built or rehabbed in the last several years have been a card stores. Ok, maybe the rate of card stores may be growing a little....for now. I will give you that. Card systems have been around for at least 20 years and all they have gotten is 5-7% of the market. Maybe in another 20 years you'll hit 20% of the market. Then again, maybe not. Especially if Dollar coins go viral. No one knows for sure, except that card stores really haven't caught on. That's a fact, my friend. If I own 80% of my market, how can you show me that I would do better with a DCO store at the same location unless you could point out a sizeable group of people that avoid my store because of my card system. Conjecture as I mentioned before.
Simple. Because many people don't like, or more importantly can't afford, to carry a float on a card. I'm sure you are aware that many Mat customers are struggling to put food on their tables and pay their rent. Do you really think that they want to carry a float on a laundry card?

If Larry feels like I attacked him for that I am sorry - to him. He's a big boy so let him defend himself. Did he ask you to defend him? I think not.

Larry almost always puts himself above character attacks like yours. If your post was tongue in cheek, he wasn't laughing in his response now was he?
Your thread was created to annoy all Dollar coin store owners, not just Larry. You just admitted that in your "pain in the butt to Dollar coin users" response above. Otherwise you would have sent him a private message. So that is why I'm defending not only Larry, but all us coin store owners.
At least you apologized. Thank you for that.
And like I said, if you really don't care what I think, then all you have to do is stop responding.
I propose this argument come to an end. It's gotten to the point where it's not a useful exchange of ideas and opinions.
In fact, James. I'll be man enough to give you the last response (even though you don't care what I think, lol) You can bash me and my opinions all you want and I promise I'll ignore you.

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by Howard

I did not see Jame's comment as an attack on Larry, I thought it was just a funny way to discuss the topic. Howard, That's because you are a card store guy. Further, it won't be a problem as even though they will wisely stop making these coins they have stated that they have 10 years worth of them in inventory. What company would keep manufacturing a product if they had 10 years of inventory in a warehouse? Actually I agree with you. It seems dumb to keep making Dollar coins if they have plenty in stock. A perfect example of the insanity of big buracracies.
As for cards vs coins, don't get me started. As James states in many areas almost all stores are card stores and most new stores are built that way. They may not be the case in central America (not to be confused with Central America), but it is in NY and northern NJ. My immediate market was four stores, three of which were cards.

If you surveyed customers I think you would find that for most (not all but most) the payment method the store uses would be fairly low on their reason why they use a given store.

Agree on that too Howard! A beautiful Mat, well run, clean, convenient, parking, 24/7, no killer competitors and priced right are the main factors. Payment systems are important, but not as important as the others.

[Adamski]

Guys,

Please. Let's everybody take a step back and take a deep breath. A good debate must begin with respect for your opponent.

Wow ... lots being said here ... where do I begin?

I know that card guys are generally more tech savy and very dedicated to their chosen card vend system. Likewise, quarter guys are very dedicated to their less technical but proven quarter vend system. I and a few others have made the move toward dollar coins and have discovered little to dislike about that system. As a group, though, we are all very passionate about how we operate so, at least, we have that much in common. (See, I did manage to find some common ground.)

We get into a sharp dispute when we try to generalize too much. Someone will say something like "Everybody hates dollar coins" just to get us dollar coin guys to react. The fact is everybody does not hate dollar coins. I've been using dollar coins for about 7 years now and here is the trend I see developing in my market.

Years 1 - 3
Customers were unfamiliar with the dollar coin, even thinking it was a laundromat token, but they readily accepted using the coin which I provided through my changers. No special training or orientation was required. Most unused coins were sold back to my attendants for bills.

Years 4 - 6
Customers began to treat dollar coins just like any other coin. They often took unused coins home and spent them at other businesses. This trend required me to buy replacement coins from the bank.

Year 7
Customers are beginning to bring more dollar coins with them when they visit. This reminds me of how customers would save up their quarters for the trip to the laundromat. Now they seem to be saving up their dollar coins to use at my laundromat.

Year 8+
If this trend continues, I foresee dollar coins becoming widely used in small-purchase commerce just as one dollar bills are widely used today. I fully expect that the dollar bill will be phased out within the next 8 years. By that time, I expect that most of today's quarter laundromats will have been converted to some other user-friendly vend system - most likely DCO. I say this only because the Dedicated Laundry Cards (DLC) have failed to become widely accepted throughout the United States even though they've been around for decades. Also, it appears that debit/credit card systems (in conjunction with DCO) may soon replace the limited demand for DLC in this industry.

Anyway, I really like reading everyone's opinions as we debate this and other subjects ... sometimes passionately. Talk is cheap but talk is also a means to explore an issue in depth and layout the pluses and minuses for all to see. Each system will rise or fall on its own merits. Our debates are indeed healthy and enlightening and, for that, I am thankful.

Now, will all you stupid card guys get off this thread so us very smart dollar coin guys can bring it to an intelligent conclusion? Just kidding ... you know I don't mean that.

[ldm]

Larry puts things in perspective very well. Here is hoping that no matter what type of system we use to collect from our customers, that we all are able to enjoy the good times, weather the storms, and come out ahead for our efforts in our small business ventures. I hope the New Year brings the benefits we all work so hard on to squeeze out of our endeavors. I am certain no matter our form of collection, we all wish each other the best in our efforts to prosper. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Les

[rbh]

Well put Les. May we all collect a crap load of quarters, dollar coins, or dollar bills in the new year!!