ESD magstrip cards

[surfflite]

I'm wondering if ESD has ever been sued for this. I would imagine if you did attempt to sue them (or even piss them off for that matter), they could, in turn, refuse to sell you any more cards. Which in turn would ultimately fail your business.

Does anyone else see what's wrong with this picture?

I do know for a fact that there are several card makers and self proclaimed card "crackers" who have attempted to recreate an ESD card...to no avail.

[chad]

That would not be very smart for them to do, come out and stop selling you cards. I brought this up like 3yrs ago or so that I am surprised no one tried to sue them for what they do. Cards readers cost an arm and a leg and the smart cards cost like $3 or so.. That is why I have the mag stripe system. I just bought for one store 3k and did not pay that much. My other store came with 12k cards when I bought the system.

Here is the BIG reason why they wont allow anyone else to sell there cards... Imagine you finding out your competitors site code and making cards with $10....The site code is what is important on the card not the balance.

[chslaundry]

breaking an encryption is actually illegal under federal copyright laws, even if you own the product under encryption (thank you, Hollywood).

marketing a non-OEM card that works with a patented card system would be illegal under patent law. the difference between the card and consumable auto products is that the card itself is typically part of the patent.

[Howard]

Originally Posted by chslaundry

breaking an encryption is actually illegal under federal copyright laws, even if you own the product under encryption (thank you, Hollywood).

marketing a non-OEM card that works with a patented card system would be illegal under patent law. the difference between the card and consumable auto products is that the card itself is typically part of the patent.

I think that is one for the lawyers, we all have opinions, but it ultimately only matters what one judge says on one given day.

Not sure about that last one either. GM has a patent (I would think) on Delco brand oil filters. Fram has a patent on their oil filters. Fram sells their filters for you to use on a GM car which is a car with lots of patents. It would only be illegal if Fram tried to sell their filters with the name Delco on it. Thus, if you use your own blank cards in your system I don't see how that is any different. If you printed "name of card system company" on the card that might be another story.

[chslaundry]

Originally Posted by Howard

Not sure about that last one either.

i guess the old adage is something is only illegal if you're caught. i was just explaining why there are no third-party vendors selling cards that will work on different systems.

contributory patent infringement for selling third-party components of a patented SYSTEM is fairly black-letter law. your example with the car conflates a system with a bunch of patents for a "patented system."

The doctrine of contributory infringement, which is codified in 35 U.S.C. 271(c), imposes patent infringement liability on a company that knowingly sells either a special-purpose component of a patented device or a special-purpose device used to practice a patented method, provided the component or device is not “a staple article or commodity of commerce suitable for substantial noninfringing use.”

[Howard]

Again, I am not a lawyer - don't even play one on TV.

In reading your definition it states -

provided the component or device is not “a staple article or commodity of commerce suitable for substantial noninfringing use.”

Blank magnetic stripe cards or blank smart cards are a commodity designed for substantial non-infringing use. So, I guess the question becomes can an owner of a card system make their own cards for use in their system.

If the answer is no, then what prevents the company you bought your system from at some point in time just telling you too bad you can't use it anymore by charging say $1,000 a card and telling you that you have to buy a new system. Something just smells wrong here.

[laundryboy2]

MOST mag cards are constructed the same. They are hard plastic with a magnetic stripe on the card.

ESD, I speculate, buys blank cards from many different suppliers and then initiallizes the card with 'some' data before sending the cards to an operator. It is this initialization that is the problem. Cards for their system must pass through their hands. This is one reason they cost more than plane-jane cards.

There is a standard for mag cards, whether for VISA, MC, ESD, or plain old gift cards. If a manufacturer competes and meets the standard, their cards will work.

Obviously, going straight to the manufacturer will get you the best price.

A card system, regardless if its a merchent system(credit cards, gift cards, loaylty cards) or a secu.rity access system can all use the same card (per spec) For example, a door access system - an employee will get a card that is configured with the doors they are allowed to open when they swip their card. Not authorized - door dont open. The card could be an old VISA card if it was initiallized by the company properly. Of course it cant be used as a charge card anymore.

The point is - a blank card is a blank card. When you order cards from ESD, it isnt really blank.

[bo]

Its ironic that some people think a manufacturer should be sued for a business practice but most laundry owners don't want dry only customers because they washed some place else. Some of us think our change machines are proprietary and nobody can poo in the loo until they start a few toploads. We get enraged when a competitor visits our store.

[Howard]

I never had a problem with dry only customers. Also I liked when competitors came as they could learn how to price their product.

[nunderwier]

As someone new that has been looking at stores for the last 3 months, reading all the forums and books and appreciate the cander. Cards seem to all come with operating costs. Whether it's the monthly fee from the *****card, or the software upgrades or cards from ***. As someone that was in the Alarm industry for years its all about the reoccurring income not he installation price. I also learned to despise proprietary equipment. That said I am still in a quandary as whether or not to add cards of some type to the 35% mix of new equipment as an option at a store I am putting an offer in on.

Regardless this conversation reminds me of why I don't own an iPhone. Until last year I think, if you "jail-broke" the phone you were SOL. Then the courts finally said they bought it, they own it, you can't turn it off or prevent aftermarket goods.

Just a thought.