FYI card system,

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by CanCanCase

Oregon - and specifically the counties I operate in - has some of the highest poverty levels and government dependance anywhere in the nation... my customers aren't even able to live "paycheck to paycheck"... they're living on food stamps, WIC and disability benefits that pay based on holding a minimum wage job for a year or so.

My customers LOVE the float... At the first of every month, their entire laundry budget can be pre-paid on their card so that at the end of the month - when the really poor folks are panhandling to buy groceries - they can do that last week's worth of laundry and not worry about how to pay for it... voluntary forced savings.

-Case

Case, Listen to what you're saying!
It sounds that you are thinking more like a laundromat owner than like a poor person.
Poor people are not interested in voluntary forced savings from their local laundromat owner. Poor people are interested in keeping every last dime that they can keep! How many panhandlers do we see who are carrying a laundromat card? Let alone a float on a laundromat card.
While the vast majority of Mat customers are not panhandlers, some are not too far away from that, and they do NOT want to give up their money to the "rich laundromat guy".

All all comes back to what Bodman originally posted. That switching to a card system will cost you sales, while switching back to coins will gain you sales. It's THAT simple in most markets. Will you still make money with a card system? Of course you will if you run a good Mat, but you won't have access to your whole market. That may not matter to some, but for other mats who are on the edge, it could mean the difference between success and failure.

[Howard]

In my neck of the woods there really was no difference in acceptance between old and young people. Older people generally need a little more explanation into how the system works, but once they get it they love it. I had and older woman who was a regular customer when I first put it in that saw it and told me that would be her last visit to the store. After I explained it to her and showed her how it work she seemed happy. On her way out she asked me why we had not done this a long time ago. The moral of the story is you have to educate people.

Charging for cards is a bad way to do things. Dexter initially suggested I charge a 50 cent deposit - which I did along with a $1.00 bonus for a $20 deposit. The first day people almost revolted at the idea of having to pay to do business with me, even though they netted $20.50 for depositing that first $20. After about 8 hours I eliminated the deposit and the bonus, now they were getting $20 for $20 rather than $20.50 and we all happy campers.

As for leaving money on the card, lots of low income people are very happy with that. You see most of them don't have bank accounts and are not very good at saving money and budgeting. I had lots of customers that would deposit money on their cards on the way OUT of the store with their clean laundry. They used it as a way to be sure they would have money for laundry later in the month.

I think the bottom line is you can always come up with ways that one system is better or worse than the other. Every store is different and every market is different and what works well in one place will likely fail in another. Bottom line you need to know your market, your customer base, and your competition.

[CanCanCase]

Originally Posted by MrMachine

...I think it's important for card operators to look outside their world and try to grasp what a significant percentage of the public is thinking. ...

Not quite right, Paul... a vended laundry operator's world is the small market from which their store pulls customers. I don't think it's terribly important for you to look outside of your market at what I'm doing because your customers do not represent the interests or thought processes of my customers... vice versa too. Sure, we're all here to share ideas from one market to the next, but what works best for Mrs. New York City has little to do with how an out-of-work logger's wife does the wash.

-Case

[Adamski]

Guys,

I think that DCO (Dollar Coin Only) is, by far, the most user-friendly vend system available today. Customers love using dollar coins for the following reasons:

1. Customers are never forced to pay for a card or use a card system that feels strange and uncomfortable.

2. Customers are never forced to carry over any unspent card balance. Any money they have left over after completing their laundry task goes back in the pocket and is immediately available for other necessary household purchases. Customers are happier when they maintain control over their money.

3. Customers are never forced to handle dozens of quarters to pay for the washers and dryers they need to use. On average, it takes just 10 dollar coins to pay for the wash and dry.

4. Transient customers never have to spend more money than the total of their wash/dry costs. No cards to buy and no unredeamable balances left on a card they will never use again.

5. Anyone with cash or a credit card can easily and quickly obtain dollar coins to start the washers and dryers.

6. Since customers have used quarters for decades, converting them to dollar coins in a no-brainer. We simply tell them that everything starts with dollar coins and they can obtain dollar coins from the changers. They don't require hand-holding or detailed instructions.

7. The bad feelings that can arise when a customer is denied a refund of her unused card balance are eliminated with Dollar Coin Only. We even offer to exchange unused dollar coins for bills if the customer so desires.

8. Dollar coins are easier to handle than quarters and less finicky than worn plastic cards. Customers seldom drop dollar coins on the floor because they are easier to hold onto.

9. Dollar coin drops accept the heavier dollar coin more reliably (even when dirty) than quarter coin drops accept the lighter quarters. Customers seldom have to re-insert a dollar coin that was rejected.

[CanCanCase]

Originally Posted by MrMachine

...Poor people are interested in keeping every last dime that they can keep!...

Then please explain why these people travel farther to get to my laundromats, pay a higher vend price, and happily deposit funds in excess of what's necessary every day. They could keep much more of their dimes, quarters and dollar bills if they would use the remaining "old fashioned coin-op" instead.

-Case

[Howard]

Paul - You have a lot of experience and know the business and know your market. I would suggest though that you don't know a lot about card systems as you have not run a card store with them. You see what happens to competitors that probably don't operate their business as well as you do install card systems and lose customers. I would bet that if you installed a card system that would not happen to you and you would do well with it. I think a good operator can do well with whatever payment system they use.

While people talk about problems with card systems, what you see here is that good operators (Duane, Case, Chad, Me?) that employ a card system really have none of the problems that typically people claim exist with card systems. In fact, we have all been able to make the systems work much better for us than coins could. Excluding Duane I think we have all operated in both modes, but I may be mistaken on that.

[Adamski]

Originally Posted by CanCanCase

Then please explain why these people travel farther to get to my laundromats, pay a higher vend price, and happily deposit funds in excess of what's necessary every day. They could keep much more of their dimes, quarters and dollar bills if they would use the remaining "old fashioned coin-op" instead.

Case,

I believe you pointed out that your remaining competitors are running virtual dumps. Could that be why you've been able to lure many of those customers over to your stores?

[CanCanCase]

Originally Posted by Adamski

Guys,

I think that DCO (Dollar Coin Only) is, by far, the most user-friendly vend system available today. Customers love using dollar coins for the following reasons:...

Larry-

It seems to me all 9 of your unsolicited DCO benefits can be applied to QO, DC/Q, or card...

1. Is a store owner's choice. You may charge whatever you like for your products and services. Just because I charge $1 for a card, doesn't mean all card system operators must.

2. Again, business operator's choice. I could just as easily hire a staff member to issue balance refunds to anyone who under-spent. My choice as owner.

3. Quarter-store customers are never forced to handle plastic cards or heavy DCs either. Card store customers are never forced to handle dirty coins... the argument works all ways.

4. Again, how balance refunds and card costs are handled is up to the individual owner and is not a function of the payment system chosen.

5. Anyone with cash or a credit card can easily and quickly obtain quarters in a quarter store and a positive balance on their card in a card store too.

6. Since customers have used dimes for decades, converting them to quarters is a no-brainer. Since customers have used credit cards for decades, converting them to a card system is a no-brainer.

7. Once again, this is a style of doing business. Any card store can choose to hire a helpful attendant to refund balances if the owner chooses to operate that way.

8. Ever watched someone with MS in an arcade? How about an autistic paying for groceries? There are strong arguments for each system that depend heavily on the customers individual level of motor functionality. When I bought several hundred dollar coins to pay for coffee, tip around town, etc. I lost a full 10% or so under the seat of my car because they were so inconvenient to take out of my pocket while seated...fat guy puts hand in pocket, pulls out 1 DC and 2 or 3 other coins come clattering out onto the floorboard.

Okay... 8 of your 9 points. I won't go to #9 since that's a technology and engineering point. Of course DC drops accept DCs reliably. Card readers accept cards reliably too. Quarter drops are probably more reliable with quarters than dime drops or slides were with dimes.

-Case

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by CanCanCase

Not quite right, Paul... a vended laundry operator's world is the small market from which their store pulls customers. I don't think it's terribly important for you to look outside of your market at what I'm doing because your customers do not represent the interests or thought processes of my customers... vice versa too. Sure, we're all here to share ideas from one market to the next, but what works best for Mrs. New York City has little to do with how an out-of-work logger's wife does the wash.

-Case

Yep, I do agree on that. Your market is probably vastly different than mine, but it's hard for me to imagine that an unemployed logger's wife's money concerns are any different than an unemployed NYC wife.

Money is money and the struggle for a customer to keep it is the same, don't you agree?
What may be different in your market may be that you don't have the withering competition that we have here. So if you opened up a great laundromat (which you ARE doing), your chances of success are greater whether you have a card system or not. You can literally blow an old run down Mom & Pop store outta the water.

[MrMachine]

Originally Posted by Howard

Paul - You have a lot of experience and know the business and know your market. I would suggest though that you don't know a lot about card systems as you have not run a card store with them. You see what happens to competitors that probably don't operate their business as well as you do install card systems and lose customers. I would bet that if you installed a card system that would not happen to you and you would do well with it. I think a good operator can do well with whatever payment system they use.

While people talk about problems with card systems, what you see here is that good operators (Duane, Case, Chad, Me?) that employ a card system really have none of the problems that typically people claim exist with card systems. In fact, we have all been able to make the systems work much better for us than coins could. Excluding Duane I think we have all operated in both modes, but I may be mistaken on that.

Howard, I think you card guys here are excellent operators and I know I've gleaned more than a few tips from you guys myself. That's what makes the interactions on these threads so useful!
I also think that if a newbie is coming into this industry and is hell bent on a card system, that he damn well better read the posts from you guys if he wants to be successful.